Mountain Bike as separate activity type or tag

Please add mountain biking to the list of activities in the app because the cals vs speed are very different from road riding. Also a count down to workout start would be a good feature.

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  • General impression I get is Strava don't want to acknowledge the existence of mountain bikes. Virtually none of the promotional articles, blogs and videos, challenges, or shop products are mountain bike related. The recent personal 2015 animation even features a road bike regardless of what kind of bike I ride.

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  • Strava supports sucks is useless

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  • Dear Strava Team, when are you going to get this sorted out? People have been asking for this change for years now and still nothing done about it. At least if you are not going to do anything perhaps you would be polite enough to explain to the mountain biking population of your customers why?

    Thanks & look forward to your prompt response.

     

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  • Big LBellski™ - I like those suggestions :)


    Key bit about difference between ride type and bikes there. Some, including Strava, argue the bike specified in the Gear section distinguishes it, but it definitely doesn't as you point out. Sometimes you do a road ride on an MTB or vice versa. It's not just about categorising your own ride data, but also in comparison with others, leaderboards and challenges (all the very things Strava is about, else we'd just use Garmin Connect, Endomondo etc).

    It's still crazy there are several types of skiing in Strava, and yet no way to distinguish road from MTB. Though they have added E-Bike and Virtual riding. If it's fine to distinguish these, then why not MTB vs Road? !

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  • Agree with Ben D, it would be great to have segments classified as road or mountain bike.

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  • That support... please don't buy premium until we have this feature

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  • I think Strava needs to think about creating user selectable and definable sports categories. A bit like XML allows for the  easy creation of new data types in database programming. So cycling would be one activity type, then that could be further defined into road or MTB. But further refinements could be made: full-suspension or not, fat biking... Then when someone creates a segment they could put it under the global cycling activity, or choose any sub category. When someone creates a new activity type they could populate it with certain attributes, such as GPS tracking, HR monitoring, cadence. The best would be a totally user based control, but logistically it might be easier to have only se!ect moderators be able to create new activity types and answer/deal with requests for sub classes.

    This would allow for specific segments to exist over the same location but still allow for more global segments comparison. So for example, I could have a segment for MTB, but if I ride it with a full-suspension, I could also choose to see standings in just that sub-category, a bit like paying members can see age rankings.

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  • Elle & Mark Shaw!,

    [this is posted to the common threads on same topic]

     

    It would be really useful if you could address the specific idea of properly using Ride *Subtype*. People get hung up about having a MTB vs Road category - which is sort of a red-herring - and also wouldn't be that useful (overall).

    by keeping *Ride* for all things cycling (one 1 to many wheels), lying, sitting, standing etc - you have a common baseline / superset for all leaderboards and clubs (by default).

    Then you add filters to leaderboards and to clubs for Ride *Sub-type* - this can be any of a number of things - Road, MTB, Unicycle, Trike, HPV, Recumbent, Elliptical.

    When you upload a ride you either select sub-type directly - or link it to a value associated with your gear selection. 

    That's it. Don't worry about segment categorisation - anyone who rides it gets logged with their ride sub-type which can then be used to filter leaderboard.

    One *nice* thing to do though would make it so that you can have multiple places on the leaderboard depending on the subtype - that is fair - its nice to see how fast you got up a ride on your MTB vs your road-bike - you don't have to add this - you could still figure it out by filtering - all your rides are still in there.

    This would also stop people creating multiple accounts for the different bikes they ride (I know lots of people who do this so they don't mess up particular bike club data which is only for one type of bike).

    I'm going to repost to the other common threads.

    Thanks


    Bill

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  • were still waiting for a change with the MTB implementation........

     

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  • Bill P., that would be ideal but I don't think Strava's system can handle that, which is why you see "Alpine Ski", "Backcountry Ski", "Nordic Ski", "Roller Ski", "Snowboarding", etc. They should all just fall under "Snow" or "Ski".

    The simplest and most immediate thing they can do is to just add "Mountain Biking" and then figure how to make those sub categories.

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  • But trying to do quick fix by just adding MTB to top level activities would be detrimental - all the riding challenges would by default not be counted (because they use Ride top level activity type). I'm not sure leaderboards would work either. Just like you don't see runners on your Ride/cycling leadboard you wouldn't see MTB.  clubs and challenges would be broken too.

    That is why we HAVE to use activity sub-types to do this properly. I think if they are smart the Strava programmers could make the changes in a matter of weeks. Yes - the backlog of database will need updating but I really don't see why anything would break.  

    They need to add type+Subtype to some code instead of activity type. And then allow type plus no Subtype to cover all subtypes. So you can filter on Ride or have a club with Ride or challenge with ride and it will pick up all subtypes - but a club or challenge  or filter with ride+MTB will only match those.

    Strava/ Mark Shaw - if you need help to analyze this change to the system and even update dbs or code you have a wealth of programming experience in your Strava customers who I'm sure would behappy to help. If you send me your database details I'll be happy to help! 

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  • Ok then  "vote".  Done.  Seriously, 8 months on from when I first joined Strava, nothing has changed.  Why is that?  Is it because it is difficult to implement with out loosing old progress?  I don't care about that.  Have a zero day and restart eveyone's clock.

    One problem that is even more apparent now than before is that "Mountain" or "road" are not the only kind of bike but they are the people who are most passionate about their sport( aside:- My local bike shop is going over to road ONLY).  People like me who commute, go for a forest ride, jump across town or along the disused railway line on our hybrid/CX/DS bikes are completely out of the mix .... I don't want to navigate, only record - amongst similar bikes. 

    Could you split by tyre width?  That would give a general indication of who is riding an what they are doing and also a rough power output for a given distance.0-28mm (racing),  28 - 35mm touring/commute), and 35mm up (mountain).

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  • By taking so long to address this, if feels like Strava is just hoping all us Mountain Bikers will just go away.  How long until we actually do?  We should all start using a different app that specializes in MTB.  

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  • Strava is not listening. A response from their developers or management to let us know why they do not want to do this would show some decency from their company.

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  • Hi Elle,

    Thank you very much for finally joining the conversation. It is great to know that you are listening. 

    I think it is important to acknowledge Mountain biking, Road Biking, and Ebikes as completely different sports hence being saved as different activities. If road riders have a dirt route that they like to take then they can make segments. If mountain bikers want to make segments on road then they can do that as well. Comparing my riding against a road bike is not useful at all to me.

    This will clear up the confusion in the segment explorer and leaderboards. I have seen some mountain bike groups also only want to compare their distance within the group against only other mountain bikers because road elevation and miles are completely different than MTB.

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  • Thanks Jesse - 

    We do have an entirely separate activity type for E-Bikes. To be clear, this is a stand-alone activity category that can be chosen from the list of activity types. It has it's own segment database that is completely separate from segments under the "Ride" activity type. This is sometime problematic as E-Bikers have to create brand new segments to populate their segment database. 

    I would hate to see this happen to Mountain Bikers, and there is no practical way we can divide the current "Ride" segment database in two parts, one for Mountain and one for Road. 

    Therefore, it's my opinion that Mountain and Road types should share one segment database, and that segment filters should allow users to "drill down" view the Segment Leaderboard by the type of ride (road or mountain). 

    On a separate topic, we could begin to categorize segments by road or trail. This would be a separate system and unrelated sub-activity type. A mountain bike ride could match both road and trail segments, and vice versa. This designation would then help the Segment Explore and Strava Route builder features. 

    Thanks for chiming in! 

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  • I always record the bike used on rides, I'd like to see that have backward compatibility and associate a type with it. I think it's also important to be able to indicate a segment as road, dirt or mixed. I really don't want to see KOMs etc start over for mountain bikes, that would be dumb, but certainly need a way to get things separated. I'm sure you guys will work this this. I'd love more than any of these to be able to find a mountain or road ride and take the correct bike. I'd also like to be able to create a whole ride along with technical skill level rating. Thanks for considering.

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  • Huge props to Big LBellski™ for the very thorough response. I agree 100% with what he had stated in his comment. 

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  • Hi Elle. Nice list!

    So.. As I have posted quite a few times... Sub activities is absolutely the way to go here. We can populate past rides (and future rides also using gear field) or just leave as 'ride' if unknown. (so you get exactly what you have today).

    To Jesse who suggested separate activity - No, you lose all the umbrella superset of stuff like ride challenges, totals, default segment filters etc - you'll be absolutely sorted using Subtype. This will also work seamlessly with clubs.
    People need to realise this is not a separate database or anything - it's just a field appended to a ride. Which then can be used for filtering etc. So you see there will be a KOM for MTB. But only when you filter on MTB, or your existing KOM was on a MTB in which case you'll get a you've been kom'd email etc. Plus for all segments if you filter on just ride (the default) you pick up the overall KOM.

    The only thing I'm weary of is the notion of marking a segment as MTB, road etc. This does cause some headaches with how you treat this on leaderboards - I don't think it should make any difference to any leaderboard. A segment is a segment. If you ride it on a MTB you can then filter to see you have beat others on MTB (but would not show roadies) - it's not the segment that influences data - it's what other people rode it on.

    There is one possible reason for marking segments as MTB, road etc - and that is for segment exploration and the route planner. It WOULD be nice.to know your cunning route up nate Harrison to the observatory is actually going to involve some serious dirt and maybe a machete.... So maybe just a ability to Map a segment terrain type. It would NOT be directly mappable to ride Subtype - because who cares if a segment is unicycle or elliptical blah blah. But off road vs on road would be nice - but as I keep saying - don't do anything else with that data in terms of leaderboards etc - they should purely be based on filtering new Subtype field in people's rides.

    Hope that helps

    Bill

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  • The calorie estimations are way off for mountain biking a two hour crossing country race with a suffer score of 154 gets 750 calories?! Probably be going badly to endomondo premium 

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  • To reiterate part of my last comment, we're very interested in and passionate about making mountain bikers feel more at home on Strava. Our lack of action is not because we don't support more features tailored to mountain bikers, but simply because we have too many projects currently lined up. 

    However, our engineering team is currently working on segment infrastructure to lay the foundation to support more filter options for segments, which would allow us to filter a segment by bike type for example. 

    We look forward to the development options ahead. 

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  • There's a saying: bullshit talks and money walks. There hasn't been a major update to the app in well over a year. It's all well and good to say that you have mountain bikers' interest at heart, but if I don't see some significant improvements to the app and how it treats non-running and non road cycling activities by the time my yearly premium membership reaches its renewal date, then it won't get renewed. 

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  • Wow very nice comment Carole. Your feeling echos the sentiment of many of us. I paid for strava for about two years thinking that they may listen to paying users. I canceled my premium membership this year and do not plan on giving them any more money until they pay some attention to the mountain bike needs. 

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  • Thanks for checking in Elle! Looking forward to logging in my miles as a mountain biker soon!!

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  • If it's a fresh start on the segment database I suspect a lot or most of the MTBers will not bother switching over if the database is empty and especially if they're not aware of the new category. It needs to be well publicised, able to default rides to MTB (or set per bike) and made easy to flip all past rides to MTB category (maybe based on bike?).

    Also, easy options to just move or copy existing segments to MTB and let the community do it, rather than just having to create everything from scratch. Although it's true that in many cases it's better if they were done from scratch as some existing segments can be garbage, a lot of duplicates too.

    As a side and kind of related issue, said before that a mechanism of ownership/management of segments by local trail community, trail centres, etc could be useful, but that's a separate feature really (and something Trailforks already do ;) ).

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  • Elle, 250 posts should matter to Strava... one post on the local mtb media of each of the responders to this post, of how Strava is ignoring the mtbers, will blow up this post... Lots of us use and love Strava for different reasons and we need a commitment from Strava that they will begin to transition to a MTB category immediately.

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  • If MTB became a new category, wouldn't the easiest way to populate it with segments be to send a quick message to all the segment creators asking them to choose whether their segment should be under road cycling or MTB? 

    Alternatively the segments could just be cloned into MTB, but left unpopulated. People could then go to their old rides and edit the activity type to MTB. 

    Problem solved. Really it's not rocket science.

    I've cancelled my paid subscription because it's a lot of money going to develop an app that is not catering to my sports. (It's the same problem between classic and skate skiing in the Nordic skiing category).  It's almost like Strava is run by a bunch of people in SanFran who have no idea of the sports they are trying to build an app for, beyond what they casually see and hear about them in the hipster cafes they frequent.

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  • I think tagging a trail as Road, Double or single track, etc. may make sense. Or we could properly tag bike types, XC, DH, CX, etc. If you were allowed to classify all your bike types, that would bring a lot of useful data to the segment type. I don't expect everyone to ride the same bike type on a segment, but you'd be able to see the split.

    Ideally this all connects back to the thought that someday Strava would allow us to search for routes or have a concept of searching for new trails, based on the bike type we may have. This of course, is another very stale conversation on these threads, and the reason I no longer pay for premium. 

    I think it's very unlikely to expect someone who created the segment to label the road type, I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to remember every one I've created, and what if the original user has abandoned Strava or worse?

    I don't really want to see PR's lost or KOM's lost. I ride my road bike on dirt and vice versa. 

    To me the best solution is a concept of segment type, road, gravel, single track, etc. The only reason this is of any value to me, is if I'm out of town and have my bike, I can search a route, load it and know I'm riding where the locals do.

    Isn't that the point of having so much data, help others who could benefit? Doesn't that get more people riding, and then in turn, get more people using your app? Focusing on the user always drives a product the farthest the fastest. Sure seems some of that focus has been lost.

     

    Or maybe Strave is just to give kudos, buy a strava kit or is it just a virtual odometer for my bike?

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  • Theres no need to manually tag each road. Strava uses Open Street Maps and all paths already have identifiers as to what type of road/path/trail they are.

     

    Strava simply need to use that information to differentiate between road and trail.

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  • I don't do both. Only MTB.... And getting KoM badges is impossible when you live in the city!
    Please Strava... A Simple filter! An option can be chosen when uploading your activity.

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