PR achievements on first attempt

Hello all, 

We're releasing a slight change to our PR (personal record) achievements. Now, when you first attempt a new segment you will receive a PR. Before, this would only occur on the second attempt if you beat your PR.  

Let us know if you have feedback for us.

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Comments

246 comments
  • Elle could I make a suggestion. Would it not be better to float ideas past the community, look at the responses and if positive go with? If overwhelmingly negative don't go with it. That way you get what the community wants without upsetting people.

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  • Elle, please communicate to the Corporate Overlords that the vast majority of us view the non-crono feed being jammed down our collective throats with just as much venom as we do/did this ill-conceived "PR on the first time riding" tone deaf misfire. There is a lot Strava needs to come through on before I renew my Premium membership. Still nothing here worth the ~ $60 a year for that. I agree with the previous writers' notion that the Corporate Overlords consider floating potential changes out to the members for feedback, and also perhaps begin paying attention to the many changes members have already asked for, unheeded.

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  • Bravo for listening to your customers. 

    Maybe you should test these kind of "features" in the future rather than changing something so fundamental. In this instance, it would saved a lot of frustration for your customers.  PR's are such a great indicator of how I am improving as a rider and you broke it with the change.

     

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  • Thanks for listening 

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  • I hate this and object to it. PR on first attempt is bogus. Only attempt as best is meaningless. Now when I finish a ride I really don' have much idea of how I did with PRs, because if it's a new or partially new route I get a bunch of new PRs that I consider meaningless. It skews the whole PR thing and dilutes the achievement of getting real PRs on a ride..

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  • It took three months with hundreds of comments from unhappy customers before Strava announce they are reversing the PR disaster. I wonder how many Premium subscribers cancelled their subscription before it hit Strava’s cash flow enough for them to pay attention. I cancelled mine and won’t be renewing it due to shockingly poor respect shown to loyal customers

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  • Someone hit the nail on the head by noting how it links nicely in with the year-end videos, targets for PRs met or whatever, now back to normal ;)

    All in all glad to have it revert but a really bad user experience and communication with paying customers

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  • Please hurry and delete this ridiculous "achievement." If I want a trophy for just doing something, I will join peewee soccer.

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  • Still looking forward to this being removed. More nonsense PRs this morning. Premium subscription still waiting to be reactivated :)

    Thanks for listening Elle.

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  • As a new Strava user, how did the PR system used to work?

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  • Glad to hear this is being removed. This is the worst feature yet.

    I did a ride on the weekend with 118 "PRs" from 125 segments and it made it almost impossible to find the 15 or so segments I'd previously ridden to see if I'd improved on them.

    I do think you may have been on to something though. A 'new' icon next to a first time segment would be better yet and help us filter through all the segments :)

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  • So happy you are removing this feature. Having the first attempt listed as a PR was odd. I would suggest that until you ride a segment a third time you should not assign PR, 2nd, 3rd,........ 

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  • @Paul Newton The old version of Strava only recorded a segment as a PR when it was faster than your previous attempt.  This was good as you could quite quickly gauge an improvement.  The hopefully soon to be removed current version records a PRs on your first attempt which makes it hard at first glance to determine if its an improvement by you or just the first time you've ridden the segment :-/ 

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  • >  As a new Strava user, how did the PR system used to work?

    You'd get a PR badge only if you bested a previous time on the segment[*], so the first time you rode something, you'd get no badge (unless you were in the top-10 overall for your gender, in which case you'd get that appropriate badge).

    Yet, when displaying data about that ridden-only-once segment, your time on it would be presented as your PR. For example, you're looking at the segment in someone else's activity, you can see their time, their PR, and your PR.

    So, from those two points of view (achievement badges and data displayed), the concept of "PR" differed, and perhaps this felt somehow wrong, so some months ago Strava changed how badges were produced to align with the data display, giving you a "PR" badge on a first attempt. In theory this made some sense... after all, your best time on a segment you've ridden once is that one ride's time, so you should get a PR badge. Totally logical.

    But in practice, it was _horrible_ because it watered down the meaning of a PR badge.  It used to be that when you saw a ride filled with PR badges, you knew that the rider had pushed themself more than before. Sure, maybe before had been a slow leisurely social ride, and this time was an only-slightly-less leisurely social ride not rally deserving of any kind of "achievement" badge, but in the common case a bunch of PR badges indeed reflected a stronger effort, deserving of praise.  When Strava reverts the change, this useful meaning will be restored.

    At the same time, in the old (and soon to be restored) system, an activity without any achievement badges could mean one of two things: a not-very-strong effort, or simply riding on a lot of new roads (perhaps strongly).  To differentiate in this situation, it'd be nice to have a subtle "first time" badge. In particular, it would draw my attention to new roads when I see this on a friend's activity. This "new road" badge has been requested by Strava users, but Strava has not to my knowledge commented one way or the other on it.

     

    [*] I said that in the old way you'd "get a PR badge only if you bested a previous time on the segment", but this is not technically correct. Perhaps because it makes the computation easier, or perhaps because they're just lazy :-), Strava looks at all your attempts at a segment, not just the attempts to that point. Let's say that you ride a new segment three times in the same activity, getting faster each time, you'd think that you'd get a "PR" badge on the 2nd attempt, and then again on the 3rd attempt, but what Strava actually does is gives you a "3rd-best" badge for your first-ever attempt, a "2nd-best" for the second attempt (which had been a new PR), and a "PR" badge for the third attempt.

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  • Elle,

    Please thank the team for considering user feedback and completing the reversion. Well Done!!!

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  • Personally I hate the reversion; for my purposes it was a handy way to identify (and have a look at) those segments I'd never ridden before. I find the # of medals fairly uninteresting (and technically it is correct that first will always be a PR), but obviously others think differently. How about some sort of 'first time' flag / medal instead, then?

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  • Thanks Anthony, I'm encouraging the team to consider a unique icon for your first attempt on a segment. You can also join the discussion here.

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  • Anthony: I can highly recommend Veloviewer if you want to dig into new places you have ridden.

    Elle:  Thanks for listening,  Premium resubscription coming up!

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  • Thanks for listening and reverting to the previous behaviour.

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  • So is there some way of updating all the activities that were carried out during the period whilst this 'feature' was in operation so that I can get rid of all the spurious PRs over the last few months?

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  • Any way this could be an option put in settings? Users could have it whichever way they prefer.

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  • @David Heaps: You can use the "Refresh my achievements" option on a per-activity basis. Hope that helps and apologies that we can't refresh all your activities at this time. 

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  • @Ellie Anderson, "Refresh activity achievements" to fix this is horrible advice, becase of the bug that causes it, as I'm sure you know, to recalculate badges not as they were at the time of the activity, but as if the ride were done today, right now. That means that something that was a KOM or a PR or whatever then, but has since been eclipsed by another rider (or another of your own rides) loses its KOM or PR or whatever, even though it was a KOM or a PR or whatever at the time.

    http://regex.info/blog/2016-08-15/2722#warning

     

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  • I agree with Chris Shunk.  This would keep everyone happy.

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  • In my opinion very short sighted by Strava, so based on 230 people you make a change. How many premium customs do you have? Might want to start with asking for feedback in a more formal way. It hurts not a single person if a PR is provided on a first ride, might even engage folks to go back for a second, third etc. effort.

     

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  • Sorry Stuart Dorland, but you are just plain WRONG!  It does “hurt” people who track achievements from year to year if the measuring stick changes.  Also, as has been stated many times if you’d bothered to read the comments, it makes it a lot harder to find/see *real* PRs when reviewing a ride.  First attempt PRs are participation trophies and nothing more, but maybe that’s the generation that you’re a part of.  

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  • Stuart Dorland have you heard of extrapolation? If you take the proportions of negative v positive feedback (230:2 or 3) the proportion when extrapolated across the membership is a tad scary I'd think.

     

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  • Kevin Craig you do realise that the measuring stick is always chaging anyway, right? New segents are constantly being created, being hidden, being unhidden; segments are of varying quality/difficulty, etc. etc. So to me personally, tracking PRs as 'achievements' year-on-year seems a flawed way to track meaningful improvements in performance (they are simply a fun feature and nothing more). But hey if that floats your boat, that's great - just don't assume everyone else thinks the same way. I'm much more interested in new segments and hopefully they implement a marker for these at some point (though for some reason I was downvoted - by the 230 no doubt - for simply mentioning that!)

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  • Thank you Strava for fixing this!

    Anthony and Stuart--indeed, segment curation is poor and always has been. But they didn't make it much worse in 2017, unlike the badges.

    But it's still *news* that I did better than ever before on some particular segment. It's something interesting which I can't figure out on my own.

    That I rode in a new town? That's something I know before I even upload the file, it's not something to conflate with having gotten faster.

    Note that I (and many others here) are fine with a 'first time' type notification--it can be interesting, especially on a ride with a slight variation. I don't really care one way or another, but they key is that it does not *detract* from the Personal Record notifications.  Showing a 'you improved' notice on something which you did not improve on was the problem and the noise.

     

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  • Anthony, let's leave aside that you missed the main and most important reason i.e. PR on first effort can make it hard to scan for *real* PRs.  Regarding your other point... most cyclists tend to ride the same or similar routes on a regular basis (see the Strava heatmap for e.g.)  Most of those routes are already heavily segmented so it's unlikely that many or any new segments will be added, and in any case they will be a very small percentage of existing segments.  Now, said cycling goes to a brand new area on vacation or for an event.  Under PR-on-first-effort, said cyclist will get dozens or even hundreds of new PRs that aren't real PRs but participation trophies and artificially inflate their PR count.  But sure, hold yourself to a low standard if you want.  Just don't try to pull others down to your level.  And based on the statistics on the thread, the VAST majority of sampled Strava users DO think the same way I do. 

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