zwift should count toward toward badges for distance and climbing

I dont get why zwift doesnt count toward badges....most of the time i suffer more on that the real deal. If anything give us half the climb or distance....getting nothing for our tough rides is not fair

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Comments

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  • yeah it is. anything "virtual" doesnt deserve to be part of the challenges..

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  • Totally agree. Separate out turbo and zwift miles from total miles too!

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  • Only those who are lucky enough to be able to ride roads all year around would say that virtual rides on Zwift shouldn't be counted.  Zwift is just as hard as a road ride, if you bothered to try it properly you'd know that.  Everesting counts Zwift as acceptable so why not Strava?  Some of us live in places where it's simply too dangerous to ride at certain times of year because of weather, so why can't we be included in the challenges?  Everyone can see that our rides are virtual, there's no pretence at them being not virtual, but we would just like to have our miles and climbing recognised, even if they are only flagged as virtual.

     

    At the end of the day, shouldn't this be mostly about getting people to get on bikes and ride, however they chose to ride them?  Saying that virtual rides don't count excludes too many cyclists and it's counter productive for the cycling community.  All we're asking is that we be included in the challenges, even if we're given a different badge or whatever - our rides are always listed as virtual so there's no pretence for real road riders to be upset about.

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  • The issue I have with virtual/trainer/indoor cycling and Strava is…it isn’t riding.  Its exercising.  While you may be siting on your bike in your garage staring at a screen or on an exercise cycle at the gym…are you riding?  No.  No balance.  No wind, no elevation, no mental game, no cars, no road conditions.  I thought Strava was about getting folks outside.  While I certainly understand the importance and use of indoor trainers for building/maintaining fitness (and I have done this in the past) including equivalent miles/elevation gained…you didn’t actually go anywhere or climb anything…you worked out.  I get how Zwift and other application calculate all of this but its not real…even if the power exerted etc. is similar.  Can I start getting more elevation on my rides in the real world if I push more power up them because I don’t live where we have big climbs?  I would like Strava to keep the virtual rides separate and out of the LBs, clubs, and badges…make separate ones for the virtual rides.  Life isn’t always fair.  Its winter somewhere when its summer for you.  Not everyone lives where its hilly.  You won’t compete in the mileage challenges if you ride a mountainbike.  Not everyone gets a trophy.  Even if all of the trainer guys come out of winter can kill me on the bike (which they will)….they didn’t ride…they worked out and good for them!  Just keep it separate on the Strava.  Thanks.

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  • adam karst u make some good points

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  • I agree with you Adam.  As i said in my earlier post, everyone can see what rides are virtual and which are not, no one is hiding anything. So why not, as you said, create separate challenges, trophies for virtual rides and runs to go alongside the real world challenges, trophies?

    My view is that Strava should encourage as much physical exercise as possible, because it's all good, and reward it all in some way.  The more Strava gets people running or peddling the better the world is, IMHO.

    We now have virtual running on Zwift as well.  This is only going to grow, this is the future, and if Strava doesn't start recognising the efforts, and it is effort, that people are putting in on their turbos and treadmills while the weather is shite then Strava will lose out to some other place that does.

    Strava needs to accept and recognise the virtual world fully with it's own challenges and trophies else someone else will and Strava will die.

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  • I see both side of this and do both road and smart turbo rides (turbo in winter due to weather). Smart trainers give you the elevation and distance but no wind resistance, saying this you come off a smart turbo trainer feeling the effort more than an equivalent distance road ride.

    The rides are automatically recognised as 'virtual' if done on a smart trainer and zwift, the easy solution for every one is for strata to add badges for road riders only as currently done and sewerage badges for virtual smart turbo trainer rides. I.e. Same challenges but under two categories.

    This way all parties are happy, it's clear what the achievements are, those who train or ride on both road and trainer can aim for both badges and this also encouraging road riding and fixed training.

    every one wins and saves the dispute + cycling wins which is the point.

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  • The fact that virtual rides are just that, virtual is the only reason needed for them to be separated from real rides, elevation and miles included.  Virtual miles and elevation.  Real miles and elevation.   Perhaps have two profiles so one could see history totals seperately.   

    It doesn't matter how much you suffered or if you casually watched a movie while you pedaled on the trainer.  It was a trainer ride and should be categorized entirely separate from your real rides.  

     

     

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  • First post here and just throwing this out there.

    I think the thing that a lot of people are dismissing with Zwift and other virtual trainers is the newer ANT+ smart trainers (Tacx Neo, Wahoo Kickr, etc). These trainers automatically adjust the resistance on the drive train according to elevation data from the software. This gives you very realistic power requirements when climbing. In my case (Tacx Neo) climbing an 8% grade hill in Zwift is at least as hard as climbing many of the 8% grades around me in real life. To just dismiss that elevation in Strava just because it's virtual seems like overkill to me.

    That being said, I'm not too worried about it. When it's nice weather outside I ride outside. When it's crappy weather outside, I ride Zwift, and I love both. I was just a little surprised when I was killing myself on Zwift climbs that none of them counted toward any of the climbing badges in Strava. But, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

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  • Elevation gain = feet you gain in elevation above sea level...not the power/other metrics involved in getting there therefore elevation gain in garage on trainer = zero.

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  • Actually, in my case it's elevation gain in the basement on the trainer, not in the garage, so looks like it's negative elevation for me... Dang!

    ;-)

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  • Absolutely should not count. It's simply not riding period. Go compete somewhere else. Yeah it's fitness but it's not the same. Going anerobic till almost passing out on a trainer might be a workout but it's still pretend cycling.

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  • ^^^Pretty much sums it up.

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  • When looking at group leaderboards can you please provide an option to include or exclude virtual rides. Many of us don't have the option to ride outside all year round. Would like to be able to compare apples with apples!

    Would also like to choose whether my virtual rides count towards to badges please!

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  • If you've used a power meter, you'll know 250W is 250W. It doesn't matter if this occurs downwind, headwind, downhill or uphill. Its still an effort of 250W. Speed and Strava times are totally irrelevant, it's power as a % of FTP that's the true indicator of how good you were.

    Therefore it's the same on a smart turbo trainer (like Tacx Neo) that replicates climbs. The fact that you're indoors is irrelevant as long as your power and heart rate are in a decent zone. In fact where I live is very flat, so I can get more intense and harder training on Zwift than I do outdoors for real. There's no way I could I find climbs that hard anywhere around here. A climb might be done indoors but I'm still in the threshold and VO2 max zone and certainly feeling it in my legs.

    My recommendation is the critics should try a 14% mountain using a Tacx Neo or Wahoo Kicker, before they make any assumptions.

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  • @ Emmet F. Whats the difference between riding and exercising? Your comment also works the other way around too... Just because you are cycling outside doesn't mean it's worthy, as it can be just junk miles at a low intensity, you're not actually gaining anything. You could cycle up a hill outside, but taking it so slow and steady you're not pushing yourself. If you can use the "Fitness and Freshness" tab on Strava you will see it possible to regularly ride and still loose fitness or plateaux, if these regular outdoor rides are too easy.

    You mention wind... use a powermeter outside and you'll see that when a headwind occurs it just means you're travelling slower for the same power output or you need to cycle with a harder power output to maintain the same average speed. 250W into wind is the exact same effort as 250W on a calm day or 250W on a turbo trainer ( you're just travelling slower into wind).

    I can have an easier ride outside than I can on Zwift. Should easy junk miles outside count towards challenges but very hard indoor workouts not count?

     

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  • Folks, I get it in terms of power, work out, FTP, yadda yadda.  I get nuking yourself on a trainer...I have done it.  This is why folks that are avid cyclists use them....they can get a much more targeted workout than you can in the real-world.  But this (Strava challenges) is supposed to represent actually riding your bike regardless of the output which using a trainer isn't.  Sure, I can slow pedal up a bit mtn and haven't hit your power numbers but guess what?  I still climbed the mountain and the guy in the garage has not.  That is not debatable.  My side of this argument is hung up on the fact that you haven't' actually ridden your bike and your side is hung up on power/output metrics/equivalents w/r to climbing.  The challenge says nothing about power or output...its about feet of elevation gained.  As I have said before, make some virtual challenges for the trainer crowd, no issue there, but keep that out of the "real world" challenges.  @Benjamin C.  the difference between riding/exercising is that when I ride, I am having fun b/c I am on my bike outside, and not in my garage suffering b/c I need to get a few more watts at the next local crit race...this is certainly just my definition, clearly yours is different which is ok!

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  • If I can measure output of my body in terms of watts and convert that to feet climbed (b/c these are equivalent) doing crossfit, is that ok?  XXX hours of this crossfit workout = so many watts = so many feet climbed.  Ok...I know I'm going down a rabbit hole but I just can't let it go....turning cycling (riding a bike...outside) into nothing more than some power numbers and calling it equivalent seems crazy-town to me.

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  • To the people that said your not riding a bike your just exercising Strava doesn’t count track riding or racing. I spend 3-5 hrs a week on my BIKE at the velodrome. But because you can’t pick up a satellite signal in the velodrome it doesn’t count. But I’m on my bike put 160-200 km a week in but it doesn’t count. There isn’t any wind on the track or cars or pot holes. Is that why it doesn’t count?

    i think if you are on a bike regardless of where it is it should count. People need little things to help them feel good about what they are doing. And really that’s all starva really is. A social outlet to help people stay motivated. 

     

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  • While I would love for my miles/climbing to count, the reality is it's not apples to apples for all kinds of reasons.  It's possible to adjust the grade sensitivity on Zwift, cheaters can adjust their weight to improve their watts/kg, the mental game of riding on the road (especially of descending) is not the same...it's just different.  However, it would be great if the folks at Strava could create virtual challenges.  There are enough people around the world using virtual rides for all kinds of reasons, rehab'ing from injury, child-care issues, during bad weather or because work schedule prevents riding on the road, etc.  

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  • @Lisa B. Unfortunately real life is no different when there's cretins who still cheat on Strava and some without a powermeter (that would shoe their real effort) who brag about getting the KOM on the most windy day of the year. I don't take these people anymore seriously than Zwift.

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  • But  if  unfortunately  life  puts  you in a situation  like an  injury situation,  like  I  am and  your  doctors don't allow you  to  ride  outdoors  due  the  risk  for  your  injuries,  and  then  you  HAVE  TO get  in shape  and  ride  to  recover your pace, DOES  ANY  OF  YOUR  EFFORT,  (MY  EFFORT) be  rewarded to  keep mental focus and have  a  reward  towards  a full recover,  balance  and  justice  people, every  drop  I  sweat  is  real asany  other  I  can  sweat  outdoors.

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  • I completely understand that people's effort wants to be counted. And to be rewarded. However strava's effort is for non virtual rider's. And realistically a virtual ride and suffering through the elements and other traffic is not the same, experience. No matter how much you "think" it's the same it isnt.
    But I understand in today's digital age and rave of inclusion, everyone feels they should get a participation medal.
    Petition Strava to set up virtual rides, and manual entries, as some type of award. Otherwise get outside and ride, the challenges as they are set up, or use another app that gives out participating awards. Or you can leave the Strava community ..... (That would sound really weird..."I left 'cause they did not give me a participation award")... Something a 5th grader would say....

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  • ^^^P. Green gets it....

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  • Good Lord Paul...most people who ride on Zwift ride outside too.  I'm quite familiar with the difference between riding inside and outside having raced for two decades.  Some of us live in place where you CAN'T ride outside for many months of the year...or perhaps work odd hours and CAN'T ride safely outside at night.  Therefore, we substitute those miles with Zwift.  Having lived during the days of hours on the rollers staring at a wall during downpours, I'm beside myself that I can now spend the time riding in Watopia when there are snowdrifts outside. In the end, I was in fact suggesting that the good folks at Strava create challenges for virtual rides.  So....don't get your panties in a wad Dear.  We're of the same mind.  We people in the land of seasons are just looking for challenges too. 

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  • Too many people equate ZWIFT or other virtual training ride with riding a bike in the physical world. Really their is no comparison . I ride both,. I literally. Train indoors and put around 60+ miles on a trainer a week,. And ride 150+miles a week in the real world. I could not give two squats about a participation metal,. It's a goal. Some times I reach it sometimes I don't.

    The real reward is seeing my health improve over the years, or after a ailment, and maintain my weight. Also it's the iced frapachino with a slice of NY cheese cake after the ride or work out..

    Receiving a "participation" award is mute. Some just need to get a grip that life is difficult and not fare, you do the best you can for you and your family. And not stress over trivial virtual rewards like "likes" or "kudos". As a sense of accomplishment or achievements. Seriously... (Mike drop)...

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