Answered

E-bike Rides on Cycling Leaderboards

No fun having strava. Trying to get up the table on your times and putting all the effort in. So that a ebike can just beat your time without even trying !!!! Really not my reason for joining strava to chase motorbikes !!!! They should be taken off and given their own result tables. But there will be the ones that won't admit they using ebikes. So the fun as now gone !!!! Hope people follow my lead and leave strava unless something is done about it ????? 

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Comments

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  • If Strava wants to keep their standing, they simply need to classify e-bikes separately; If they can categorize by age and sex, why not gear? I'd actually like to compare myself to other 50+ yo ebike riders.

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  • @scott diner it’s a simple concept and shouldn’t be hard to implement as you referenced. It would also solve smart turbo perfect conditions vs real world conditions (traffic and corners) if classification was provided, potentially even forced.

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  • Hey Folks, 

    There's a separate activity for e-bikes available in the "Sport" dropdown. If you see an e-bike athlete in the normal ride leaderboards, please flag their activity to bring attention to it. 

    Cheers. 

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  • I'm an eBike rider, I joined Strava just yesterday. I have no interest in racing or breaking records or competing in any way. My eBike is a commuter for longer distance travels and I love Strava for the extra diagnosis data I get to monitor and improve my experience. 

    I think the ideal solution would be to be able to classify your bicycles. Some people have multiple bicycles they ride for different things. Some have just one. So you should be able to class your bikes as "road", "mountain", 'eBike" etc. Then when starting a ride when you press record you just scroll to the bike you're using. Or better yet a simple iconographic button that cycles through (line picture of a road, line picture of a mountain, line picture of a battery).

    I'm not going on any tracks or aiming to disrupt the proper records, but I'm still new to the app. If I inadvertently do something that's recorded I'm just hoping I can erase it from the records so as not to interfere with everyone's hard work.

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  • My problem is that I'm currently riding a jet bike, and there's no category for that.   So I'll just include it as a road bike until Strava adds a category for jet bikes.

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  • The flagging system is worthless and not actioned.

    I flagged this ride 12 months ago. The lady is even sat on her EBIKE at the top of the Hope Line Climb that she has QOM status on.

    Seriously Strava. It may not be a huge problem in the US yet, but in Europe it is a joke.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/984390025#24132922168

     

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  • Hi Trevor, 

    I don't see that activity as flagged. If you flag the activity, our reps will review it. Cheers!

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  • Thanks Jess,

    I have flagged it for the third time. I hope you can see it now?

    https://www.strava.com/activities/984390025#24132922168

    Every segment below 2:30 on this segment is completed on an EBIKE. Just have a look at it. :)

     

     

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  • Thanks for doing that, Trevor. I'll take care of it. 

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  • Thanks Jess, I can see that you have for this rider.

    However almost every rider who has posted sub 2:00 on this segment is on an bike.

    The segment rises almost 300ft and people are posting climbing it at 12mph up a rocky road in 1:30 - 2:00?? 

    This is the algorithms that Strave need to adopt to automatically flag up this nonsense.

    This is the segment that catches out the cheats

    https://www.strava.com/segments/1234072

    These are some of them.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1682564496/overview

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1864834285#46791096681

    Thanks :)

     

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  • Hey Trevor, 

    I turned your comment into a ticket so we can take this offline and work on the flagging of athlete's activities. Cheers!

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  • Currently e bikes cannot duplicate segments from established regular bike routes, the ability to copy segments would resolve this issue overnight if only Strava would do something about it.
    Strava allow segments to be copied into e bike class please.

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  • Hi there, I was wondering it Trevor Shepherd or indeed anyone else who has taken part in this discussion would be free to chat to The Times newspaper about the use of e-bikes on Strava?

    My name is Kaya Burgess and I am a journalist at The Times newspaper and have regularly written about cycling for the paper.

    It is Wednesday January 9 today. Do please let me know if you'd be free for a chat on the subject asap today or perhaps on Friday morning (11th)? Do please drop me an email on kaya.burgess@thetimes.co.uk.

    Many thanks indeed.

    Kaya

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  • There’s an awful lot of negativity about ebikes on this forum which I don’t really understand. A road legal ebike in the UK can provide power assistance up to 16mph. Admittedly some hills I can get up faster than on my road bike but my daily commute which I mostly do on a road bike, which takes around 25 minutes, is only 3 minutes faster on my ebike. All the flat and downhill sections are slower on an ebike that a road bike, but he assistance of an ebike as very welcome in adverse weather conditions, carrying luggage, or when I’ve gone down with man-flu. I can also let the tyres down a bit to cope with riding on snow and ice. As for the “cheating” on strava. 9 times out 10 the issue is that especially new riders do not know that Ebiking can be selected afterwards by editing the activity. Come on guys, Strava a social network for cyclists, that provides excellent analysis for self improvement, not the Tour de France. It’s just a tool. I think that it perhaps gets taken a little bit too seriously by some members. If you really want to show your worth then take part some sportives, audax or races where the event is timed and marshalled.

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  • Ebikes are slowly ruining strava leader boards, most bike riders don't even know how to mark their activities.

    Strava needs to take more action against ebikes or all segments leaderboads will be point less.

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  • Judd,

    I think you rightly state that most bike riders don't know how to mark their activities. This is especially true of people who are casual riders and don't care enough about best times etc to learn to use the app perfectly (e-bike riders).  There is undoubtably cheating with intent going on, but if the app isn't simple enough for well-meaning casual app users to use correctly this is largely a Strava app design problem.  The primary action they need to "take against ebikes" is better app design.

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  • There is only one e-Bike category for super-different vehicles.

    (EU-Pedelec, US-Pedelec, S-Pedelec)

    Different types of eBikes are handled differently by traffic laws and should get differently handled on Strava as well.

    1. EU-Pedelecs 250-25 (250 watts, engine-powered till 25 km/h) are handled as bicycles by EU law, they may use all bicycles lanes, city parks, forests, need no numbers plate, no driving license, not even a helmet.

    Market share 99%.

    2. US eBikes up to 20 miles per hour

    3. EU S-Pedelecs up to 45 km/h, market share below 1% but dominating eBike-segments with ease.

    No wonder Pedelec riders use the bicycles category, they ride bicycles by the law and there's no appropriate Pedelec category so far. With 15 kg extra-weight the comparison to normal bicycles in different terrains remains interesting. 

     

     

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  • We don't need Strava to take action against us we need more options in the app. There is also a lot of ignorance towards e-bikes on here and I would take a guess that many of the negative comments are from people who have never ridden one.

    I ride an e-mountain bike and find Strava a really useful app when comparing downhill segments, checking routes and sharing rides with others.

    All that is needed is a simple box to tick from the pull down menu that would list e-bike submissions in their own category, but still allow you to compare your rides with other cyclists. I do agree that e-bikes should not be listed on the leaderboards grouped in with everyone else but could have their own category. I would have thought this was relatively easy to setup.

    The people who say Strava is just for people who want to train and check their fitness are limiting the usefulness of such a good app. There is room for all types of bikes including pedal assist. The app may have started out as a fitness training app but its much more now.

    It would be great to to be able to easily compare your efforts with other e-bike riders as well as conventional bikes. You still need a good level of fitness and technique to ride an e-mountain downhill fast, so Strava is very useful to see how you are progressing.

    The only time I was king of the mountain was when left it recording in the car!!!

    We are not trying to piss people off by stealing your crowns and riding around in turbo mode everywhere, we are genuinely having loads of fun and actually cycling more.

    Strava shouldn't be accusing e-bike riders of claiming 'segment times' when there could easily be a solution to this. I'm quite sure nobody is doing it deliberately.

    To the matter of different categories for different e-bikes this is something for maybe future developments of the app, but would also rely of people being honest about the bike they ride. Then there are de-restricted bikes, a whole can of worms there! 

    E-bike are here to stay and will only increase in popularity so why not embrace them, especially when it gets more people out of cars and out on trails.

    My E-MTB is the best thing I've ever spent money on and I love riding it, but I still have a lot to learn to get the best out of it, and would miss not being able to use Strava in the future to help monitor my progress and check my rides.

     

     

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  • How about you JUST RIDE YOUR BIKE and quit worrying so damn much about KOMs and bullshit like that. I ride my bike for fun, and if I want to be measured against others, I'll go race. When I use Strava it's to compare myself to myself.

    I guess my insecurity genes never developed fully or are surpressed by my "zero f*cks given" genes...

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  • Peter Hill is right.

    Btw, European standard Pedelecs (engine-support till 25 km/h and shortly slightly more) are sports as well, just a bit less for competitive races.

    My standard speed has become above the 25 km/h, so I burn calories all the time (strangely without getting hungry, I only experience this with my standard EU Pedelec 250 watts)

    Now I'm fit enough to go into the hills with also a classic bike, thanks to my Pedelec 250 watts, love it and even started jogging because of it. 

     

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  • Most of your writing makes sense, but, sad enough, it’s not about „We are not trying to piss people...“ - there are a lot of people out there, that are in fact deliberetly smashing the competition. Even if you talk to them, they don‘t mark their rides as an e-bike-ride.

    So Strava has to take action imo

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  • Most are missing the point.

    The issue is that an Ebike ride should be easily spotted by Strava. People at 40plus years don’t peddle up 10% MTB trails at 15MPH with a heartbeat of 110BPM. 

    It should be something very simple for Strava to work out that 56 year olds cant do a 4 minute mile. But they are all up there. Thousands and Millions of times that mean nothing and make the whole point of Strava look ridiculous. 

    As a subscription app, that IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Run keeper, even the free version, will flag up a run that is way too fast compared to your previous performance or your age and gender. So why the hell cant Strava?

    So those saying “ride your bike dude..” “I’m not insecure” (although secretly you must be;)) or “Ebikes are fantastic” of course they are. 

    Its about 1. The idiots who deliberately use Ebikes to massage their own ego and mess up those who are interested in times, fitness, comparisons against their peers. But more so the fact that Strava should be able to address the issue but cant be bothered it seems.

     

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  • I have noticed that there are more and more e-bike riders illegally riding on Mt. Wilson trails (LA area). While they can designate their bike as e-bike on Strava many potentially will not for a few reasons:

    One, they will call themselves to attention as they are likely aware that e-bikes aren't allowed on Mt. Wilson at this time. Hence, they will likely avoid being honest

    Two, they could perhaps enjoy a leader time regardless of their "motorized help".

    Perhaps there could be an algorithm or process which would look at rider history, specific equipment/weight, legality of e-bikes in the area, etc. For example, I had a ride flagged for being KOM as it should have been. I realized that I left my Strava on and drove home. While that was an obvious mistake, the same process could potentially be used to help weed out times that don't follow the path of the rider if they are cheating. Just thinking out loud.

    It's nice to know how your time compares and when people cheat if ruins it for everyone.

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  • @Trevor Shepherd You are 100% correct. It's not fair and it's not good enough.

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  • @Rick Bulotta The thing is that Strava isn't designed for you alone, it's designed for a competitive and friendly community who seek other uses beyond your personal-only use. This must be taken into consideration. Personally, I don't sweat my times being good or bad all the time because it depends on hiking traffic, mechanicals, etc. But, fake (e-bike) times do ruin it for those who truly deserve the better time if that's what THEY are seeking.

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  • @Peter Hill From my post today:

    "I have noticed that there are more and more e-bike riders illegally riding on Mt. Wilson trails (LA area). While they can designate their bike as e-bike on Strava many potentially will not for a few reasons:

    One, they will call themselves to attention as they are likely aware that e-bikes aren't allowed on Mt. Wilson at this time. Hence, they will likely avoid being honest.

    Two, they could perhaps enjoy a leader time regardless of their "motorized help"."

    I have nothing against e-bikers and one day may perhaps get one, but this is still potential problem which is related to legality of e-bikes on the trails they are not allowed on.

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  • If emtbs are considered cheating why did the UCI just accepted emtbs as a racing category?

    Some people take this KOM thing a tad too seriously lol, if they do the same effort they put to argue againt ebikes into cycling pretty sure they'd get back their beloved leaderboards. Alot of people choose to forget that once you hit 25km/h on an ebike, then you're lumped with a 25kg beast to pedal... compared to a 9kg full sus bike. After all its still all in the legs cause what the ebike gives you is realtive to what you put in. On my acoustic mtb I still manage to overtake mates on ebikes both on climbs and descents - the weight plays a massive part in this game, as do the legs

    Just get off the keyboard and go cycle more :-)

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  • Christian - E-bikes ARE cheating when compared on an even level with non-e-bikes. Just because someone made a special category for e-bikes in races doesn't mean they are competing with them head to head. They are just that, their own category so they are competing against themselves. Allowing e-bikes on the leaderboards with regular non-e-bikes totally invalidates the leaderboards. E-bikes may not be an advantage on a downhill segment, but they are a huge advantage on a flat or uphill segment.

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  • Jason if for you the UCI is "just someone" it simply proves how little you know about the real world of cycling... If as you say the Strava leaderboards put everyone on an even level - they why are pro athletes allowed on the leaderboards? Noone anyone outside the pro-pelaton can even start to compare with amaetur riders, yet no one created any drama about this - pls note that those same athletes can out pedal an ebike ANYTIME on any terrain.... a pro cyclist generated way more power than an amaetur on an ebike, but if you want to keep your predjudice up to you.

    As for 'special categories', the REAL world of cycling - that world outside the online bubble of Strava, has ALWAYS been split in special categories such as Elite, Masters 40, Masters 50, Masters 60, Ladies, Juniors, etc so let's drop the 'special category' sarcasm cause seriously it simply shows that some are so engrossed in Starva that they either ignore or are oblivious how actual bike races are held, races under the control of the UCI - you know just that someone who made a special category....

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  • In the USA most eBikes with around 27 kg of weight might have an advantage in even flat segments. 

    It's much different in Europe where EU Pedelecs are more a class of their own. The eBike category would benefit a lot from sub-categories and searchable segments !

    In the European Union 99+% of all eBikes are EU-Pedelecs, limited to 250 watts and engine-support stopping at 25 km/h. It makes no sense at all to mix these bicycle-like vehicles with more powerful eBikes meant for roads only.

    As far as I know most Pedelecs in the US have up tp 500 watts up to 20 miles/hour (=32 km/h).

    In the EU we have 99% EU-Pedelecs (250 watts, 25 km/h, they can go beyond 40 km/h in flat segments but not engine-pwered) and we have 1% S-Pedelecs engine-powered up to 45 km/h with up to 4,000 watts but maximally 4x of the human momentum power.

    Dear Santa Claus, I would love an EU-Pedelec sub-category and I often miss the ability to search for e-Bike segments.

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