Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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Comments

73 comments
  • Add a way to communicate with the creator of a segment.  It could be anonymous if you want to maintain their privacy (I don't think that is necessary).  There are far too many duplicate segments as well as poorly created segments (start too soon, end too late, using bad GPS data, etc...).  A lot of this can be fixed easily by the users if you allow others to communicate with the creator of the segment to suggest edits or point out that there already is an existing segment created.  

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  • I agree Jason, although I am not clear on how a solution would look. I think anonymity, or at least the option of it, would be important to some of the community. 

    Other examples of why I'd like this feature:

    1. Over the summer a couple of segments popped up near me on private land. I am pretty sure that this would have been an innocent mistake, but the segments appeared to be driving "running heat" to those spots. I am aware that you can flag up a segment for being dangerous or on private land, but I felt that some correspondence to say - saw your recent segments, please be aware that they're using private land and the alternative (public route) is here, blah blah blah.

    2. Renaming of segments. I enter a couple of annual trail relays and one of the things I use Strava segments for is learning the routes in advance. Over time the routes that the relays take has changed and so you end up with a number of segments all saying "Leg 3" and confusion as to which is the current one. I think a message to the creator saying "Please can you rename to this segment to Leg 3 (Old version)" would do the business.

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  • Currently KOM/CR is fastest of "all time". I would like to see the addition of KOM/CR for each calendar year.

    I know that currently you can refine the leaderboards you see by various things, including "this year", "today", etc., however what I am proposing is that at the end of each calendar year KOM/CR for that year would be handed out to keep.

    Many segments will at some stage in their life be hit by athletes who the vast majority of people will never match for pace. For those at the top end the challenge of trying to take that segment can be a real motivator and lots of fun, however for many they just have to write them off and look elsewhere. Over time an area can become saturated with nearly all segments becoming permanently out of reach to the vast majority.

    My proposal would see the fastest of all time remain, but would introduce the annual fastest, which would have the benefit of effectively reopening all segments to the whole community each year. I think this would drive engagement and inclusivity, and would love to see it adopted.

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  • Please consolidate regular bike and e-bike segments into a single segment datase but keep separated leaderboards depending on bike type. This would enable live segments for eBike riders, and remove de concerns about the lack of segments for eBikes, the unavailability of eBike segments search or not being included in the new route maker.

    It also enables riders to compare (but not compete) with people using different bikes, which I think is useful for DH segments.

    It also encourage eBikers not to record their activities as regular rides. How many of them do it just to get the same functionality as regular rides?

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  • Please bring back live segments with negative slopes. Half of my starred segments have disappeared as live segments even though I live in a very flat part of the world - if necessary you could tick off a box stating that you are aware of the risk of riding/running downhill.

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  • I would like that if you create a new segment on a course you could set a start date for that segment. Most Xco courses here in sweden are very compact and when theres a new design on the course all the old times are on the new segment. 

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  • George M. - they had something like that a number of years ago.  It was resoundingly disliked across the board.  Rides early in the year were flooded with Q/KOMs for that year with other trophies mixed in for overall results.  It was just a mess.  I do agree that it would be fun to have the option to view the results for a particular year other than just the current year.  I would like to look back and see who had the fastest time on a particular segment in 2016 for example.  I don't think we need another set of Q/KOMs for that, but at least a leaderboard to view.  

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  • Why not adding a like and dislike button or another possibility to rate a segment?

    I would also limit the number of created public segments per user to max 20. Most of the known/interesting trails/climbs/routes already have several segments. I see less sense in letting users to create segments all over the place. There are already way too many in my backyard.

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  • Jason Lamoreaux - Hi Jason - thanks for your post.  I share your concerns about poor quality and duplicated Segments.  However, I can't help feeling that if a user doesn't take the time to carefully create a new Segment they are unlikely to respond to feedback from other (anonymous) users who request Segment edits or deletions.  I am in the habit of simply hiding poor Segments and this seems to work quite well (I've just hidden 3 poor Segments with corrupted leader-boards from my bike ride of today).

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  • I find it frustrating when people get the top of a leader-board only because they haven't completed the full length of a Segment.  In a recent example I saw a "KOM" performance by someone who had joined the Segment about 15% of the way after the start and left about 10% of the way before the finish.  Clearly the algorithm that matches athlete GPS data with Segment details has to have some tolerances in order to cope with minor GPS deviations.  However, as GPS accuracy seems to have generally improved in the last few years I wonder if the tolerances could be deceased slightly.  This would therefore require stricter matches to Segments and stop some of the these spurious KOMs.  Of course this needs to balanced with the risk that some genuine performances may be disqualified due to minor GPS drift - is this something the Strava experts have studied ?

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  • Ian Barton - I totally understand what you are saying and you are probably right that many of those who create bad segments won't go back to fix them, but is there any harm in having a way to at least ask them?  It's one of those "can't hurt to try" situations.  I think in some cases, the poorly made segments are done by people newer to making them.  They may not realize you can zoom in on the map to get a better view of the start/finish locations to adjust the points or are just in a hurry to get one made for a specific event.  I know we can always hide segments, but it is getting to the point where some of our trails have more hidden segments than unhidden ones.  

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  • Is Strava considering to improve accuracy of segment leaderboards by doing interpolation between GPS points when matching segment start and finish?

    And why it isn't possible to post new topics on this new forum?

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  • Regarding negative slope segments, those aren't available as Live Segments even to runners! I live in a moderately hilly area, which means half of all Strava segments aren't visible on my Garmin watch, which I use exclusively for running.

    What is especially silly is that any loop segment or an out-and-back segment ends up having 0% overall slope so it is available even if it is super hilly, so it all depends on a luck of whether the end point of segment is below the start point or not, regardless of amount of hills in between.

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  • Has anyone else noticed a recent problem when tying to edit the title of one of their own Segments ?

    About a week ago I noticed a small change to the format of the Segment form as seen on my browser - the Action drop-down had moved from the bottom right to the top right.  This seemed to correspond to a loss of the functionality to edit the title of a Segment - although the "Edit Title" option appeared below the title, when I clicked it nothing happened (I got the same result with multiple Segments and 2 browsers).  About 3 days later the Segment form layout reverted to the previous one and the Edit Title option worked as before - I assumed a Strava developer had made a minor update and reverted when it didn't work properly (and so I closed the ticket I had raised with Strava Support).  However, this morning I again see the "new" layout and I cannot edit a Segment title (I only wanted to correct a couple of typos !).

    Is it just me or do others have the same problem ? 

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  • szh hke - I understand your concerns about over-proliferation of Segments. 

    Maybe I'm lucky, but where I live I don't see it as a major problem.  As an example, I went on a 2-hour bike ride from my house yesterday.  It included 50 Segments, ranging in length from 0.18 miles (current Strava minimum) to 2.15 miles.  I have 7 of the Segments hidden (5 for corrupted leader-boards due to poor Segment creation and 2 for duplication).  This is all fine for me.

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  • As of this morning segment leaderboard breakdown data has disapeared from the mobile app (following/this year etc). It now only shows the top all time and your place within it. When this data was moved behind the paywall i subscribed as segements are the reason i use strava over other apps. Is this coming back ? its the only useful feature in the subscription.

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  • Segments with no rides in 18 months should be deleted. This would start to filter out segments made with bad GPS, and peoples old training routes.After that it would be nice to be able to nominate segments to be deleted or fixed [snaps to road.] 

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  • Fully agree Ian Barton.

    On enduro segments, some riders shortcut when they are no more confident. When these shortcuts are bellow the GPS tolerance, they can win the KOM. Most of them didn't want to cheat.

    On another hand, some bad guys run shortcuts intentionally to win the KOM. These guys destroy the tracks and the segment become dangerous. For example, this technical segment with gaps, wallrides, jumps... was damage some weeks ago: https://www.strava.com/segments/24662847 . A parallel line came up avoiding all the difficulties, crossing the regular tracks. Shortcut is in the GPS tolerance. Saw the ground traces, some hundred runs on this shortcut to win the precious KOM. The current top 5 cheated. Legit riders and shapers had an IRL exchange with some of them. None was able to rerun similar time legit.
    >For this cheating issue, I suggest to stop to give definitive KOM with a time improvement bigger than 10%, without fly-bying with historical top10-20 riders on this part. So, if the other rider validate this ride, the KOM is validate. If not, he just have to rerun it with local riders. Simple and much secure.

    > For the cheating shortcut, I think you could check the comparison analysis riders chart, and suspect a shortcut when someone win 10s and more in less than 50m.

    > For all the shortcut, it would be nice to be able to report one suspicious segment and not all the ride too, to solve the withdraw shortcuter who win the KOM without cheating intention and run legit other part of the trail.

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  • Suggestion: the XOM on a segment should be able to rename it (as well as the creator). There are a lot of identically-named segments especially in some trail areas, and this makes them both difficult to search for and unclear in meaning. Giving the segment leader the ability to modify the name would be a fun additional incentive for people to take XOMs, and would allow for neglected segments to be appropriately renamed.

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  • Ian Barton, regarding matching segments when a person doesn't fully complete it, I've seen it many times on running segments where it is even easier to join a segment later or simply turn around before the finish. 

    Strava never guarantees that segment start and finish points are actually crossed. The algorithm simply finds a point on a track which is closest to segment start while still being within a certain radius from from it. It does the same for the finish. The radius is substantial to allow segments still match at cycling speeds when using smart recording on GPS devices (e.g. recording every 5 seconds or even less often). 

    Strava could fix this by making the algorithm better. For example, even if the closest point matching a segment start/finish is within a segment they could try to "draw lines" to next/previous points to see if those lines go even closer to the actual start/finish. That interpolation between points would provide much more accurate criteria for matching a segment, as well as much more accurate timing, and prevent issues like someone cutting into segment from a side or exiting early. That would be possible because the matching radius for the interpolated start/finish point could be much tighter. And I think the improved algorithm would be only marginally more expensive in computing cost.

    @Jojo, if you read this comment, please pass it to the development team. Doing interpolation would be a real improvement that would solve many of the problems that currently exist on segment leaderboards. For example, that would solve a problem of someone showing a higher average speed on a segment than their peak speed during the same segment. I'd be happy to provide more details if needed.

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  • Can Strava make a separate category for MTB. It will allow me to see my real off-road effort (2 mile climb on dirt is not the same as 2 miles on road).

    It is important because MTB and road biking are totally different.

    An example of this is a trail that next to a road will mean my effort and segement times are compared with a road biker on a completely different surface and bicycle (my bike is 3 times heavier than most road bike bikes)

    I think this is a great idea because MTB and Road cycling are as different as snowboarding to skiing, ice skating to inline skating, SUP to surfing, walk to hike, canoe to kayak.

    Users of strava have wanted this for a long time. Thanks.

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  • there are certain segments which have KOMs and people on the leaderboard who have not interacted with Strava for a number of years, posted a time then for whatever reason have dropped off. Could their times be removed if the rider (in this case but could be runner or swimmer) hasn't used the system for a designated period. Some are over 5 years old, bikes have changed in that time, the condition of the segment has also.

    Further to this, some segments have changed since their creation due to footpaths being redirected, obstructions removed or placed, new gates etc. how could this be managed as the times are not comparable in this case...

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  • @Alan Levick - the problem with making a separate category for MTB is that most people don’t list what bike they use, much less the type of bike. Even if you could get most people to start doing that, it wouldn’t help the 10 years or more of data in the system that does not have that association. Unless you started leaderboard from scratch, your historical database would make the results unusable. I would be interested if you could come up with a way to reliable separate the two.

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  • Similar to Alan (MTB and road biking), but with Nordic Skiing - classic vs. skate. I am a subscriber and love Strava for running, particularly the segments and leaderboards. It is great motivation! As much as I like Strava for running, though, the fun ends in winter as I mostly classic ski (Nordic) and there is no differentiation between skate and classic (as different as road biking and mountain biking). I have no opportunity to make a leaderboard as a classic skier competing against skate skiers. In effect, Strava does not yet include classic skiing. Suggestion: When starting a workout and choosing an activity from the already-listed Alpine Ski, Backcountry Ski and Roller Ski, break Nordic Ski into two options: Nordic Ski - Skate, and Nordic Ski - Classic. They could share the same segments but have different leaderboards. If not possible to share the same segments, then allow Classic to begin creating new segments for that discipline. Many have asked for this before - you would allow MANY Nordic skiers to gain full use of (and fun with) Strava in the winter! Thanks!

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  • The creator of a segment needs a way to select the GPS accuracy needed to register as having run that segment, especially crossing the start and end points, and following the segment's course and direction accurately. This will allow for useful segment creation in areas such as laps of lakes or ovals where currently one side of the loop registers as the reverse direction of the other side. The accuracy setting might be for example: "low" (ie. the current setting), "medium" (within 10m of start/finish, and no more than 10m variation from any point of the segment, "high" (5m variation), and of course direction of travel always applies

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  • Andy Sonneland

    I love the idea of a global leaderboard for each global discipline (skiing), with sub-discipline filter (nordic skiing).

    Same about cycling and road, gravel, cx, xc, enduro, emtb... sub-categories

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  • @Tom Reading  I don't want my rides to be deleted in 5 years. I'd like my KOM to still be there in 150 years if no one has beaten it. There are plenty of fellas already in my area with KOMs from 2013 who no longer ride as fast. If they are now 50 and can't push a big gear anymore I don't see why they should lose it if I can't beat their effort now. We need to do more to get rid of bad GPS efforts and people using e-bikes/cars on segments than deleting perfectly cromulent rides.

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  • LEADERBOARDS SEGREGATED/FILTERED FOR INDIVIDUAL or GROUP EFFORTS

    Users have long begged for this possibility.
    As everyone knows, leaderboards are one of the most differential features of Strava and also certainly the most motivating possibility it offers.

    It is really frustrating that a solo rider has no choice when appearing on the same leaderboard as riders who qualify riding in a group with the benefit of the relay draft.
    Of course the problem is even greater when the group cyclists are professional pelotons in a race.

    Strava has the ability to detect group activities and can implement this segmentation on leaderboards.
    Furthermore, users could flag activities that may have been done in a group and the system would not have detected them as that.

    This is VERY important to find motivation riding alone, specially in this moment with the COVID-19 situation around the world.
    Proper leaderboards sure will make people want to pay per subscription.

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  • Tom Tom Reading - I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with the idea of clearing people out just due to inactivity.  I think there are some options they could implement to address physical changes in the segment itself such as allowing the creator of a segment to set a "start date" for it, so if new features are added/removed, they could set a new segment that only takes into account attempts after that physical change.


    As far as removing efforts from people because they have been inactive for a period of time, I strongly oppose this.  If someone dies or has some kind of injury that prevents them from further activity in Strava, their achievements should not be discarded.  They still set that fast time and it should stand as the standard until someone can surpass it.  If I go break my back and can no longer ride, I would be really annoyed to see that my past efforts that were 100% legitimate and earned were just wiped from the record because I am no longer riding as if they never happened.  

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  • E-BIKES ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT: As Susun Corda says above "leaderboards are one of the most differential features of Strava" and thus make Strava worth paying for the premium membership. Being primarily a mountain biker, I don't experience many problems with drafting or with people not completing the entire segment as described  by some users above. I see E-bikes as the primary threat to Strava as we know it. The leader boards have become polluted with e-bike times disguised as legitimate rides, and this makes the Strava Leaderboards meaningless.  It’s easy to spot the obvious effort when an e-biker takes a KOM on a popular steep climb, and then we can flag it, but what about all the e-bikers that are a bit slower and then go undetected? If this continues, and Strava continues to do nothing about detecting fake e-bike times, I will not renew my premium membership as Strava is losing its main attraction (to me).

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