Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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461 comments
  • Hi Carlos,

    I agree, I think the same too. Your proposal should be accepted as soon as possible, it would solve the problems you have reported

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  • Hey strava community team. As a Zwift leader and a IRL Club route designer, i'm worried about the increasingly eroded user experience around segment leaderboards.

    Issue: #1: i post leaderboards for segment efforts after each SMITE ride in zwift on saturdays, and periodically with our IRL club, however, the 'club' filter mechanism often RETURNS 0 records.

    Issue #2: The filter mechanism itself is of little use because the only options are 'today', 'weekly', 'monthly', 'yearly' and all-time. The ability to target a specific date would give it greater utility, because presumably, if you are there to mine data for a single data, you may not be fortunate enough to be there on the exact date you and your club rode. Examining the difference between the following use-cases would reveal that most of us are looking for specific data, not generalized data.
    - "I want to find out what happened on date xyz, becuase it was a fondo event i participated in" Is probably more likely than "i wonder who was the fastest rider in month x of this current year".

    Issue #3:The removal of our ability to create segments in areas where there are many duplicates demonstrates an architectural issue that only appears with scale. I hope this is temporary, because it is killing a lot of use cases where competitive races that identify certain segments, would like to capture their results. Most of my competitive segments in Zwift have been irreversibly marked 'private' and i can no longer use them on behalf of my clubs. IRL segments are less of an issue because there is less duplication. I would recommend allowing us to create as many segments as we want, but to place a cap on query retrieval that is filtered by 'popularity'. However, the continued ability to harvest data for less popular segments should remain. Throw some NFRs in the backlog to improve scaling with this feature, or at least tell us what your plans are on this front.

    I know this type of refactoring takes time and effort, especially if short-cuts were built into the architecture in order to focus on user adoption years ago. I get it. But tech debt has a habit of coming back to haunt us with exponential delivery and maintenance effort, so it can't go ignored for too long. Give your engineering team 20% of their iterative budget allocation to focus on tech debt and architectural integrity - i trust them.

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  • Leaderboard exclusion is easy for runner and roadcycle. It will be a problem for MTB.
    Every month, some guys shortcut some technical singles and damage the shappers work to try to win the precious KOM. Shortcuts are under GPS precision limit. And they win only some minutes. Undetectable except by local rider.
    Local rider could be another way to validate some controversial results

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  • Pieter Godderie, interpolation has been suggested many times already, both in this version of the forum and in the previous version. I am pretty sure Strava is aware of that suggestion. They mention that themselves here:

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918227-Optimizing-Segment-Creation-how-to-create-good-segments

    Recording intervals vary between devices - for example, the Strava mobile app records every second while Garmin devices use either 1-second intervals or a smart recording which has a varied recording interval. Segment matching works the same on each GPS dataset, but depending on the device's recording interval, can yield different results. Segment matching uses the GPS points in the data closest to the start and endpoints of the segment, and as this can vary with each activity, timing on a segment can vary slightly because of this. At the present time, we don't interpolate or extrapolate GPS data to normalize for the exact start and end positions of the segment. 

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  • Steven Zeller - Are you sure about that?  When I look, Nordic skiing and running have their own segments and leaderboards.  There are a few random occurrances where someone recorded their ski as a "run" initially and then changed it later and for some reason they still show on the run leaderboard, but that is very rare.  99.9% of the time, when they change, they are removed from the running leaderboards and added to the Nordic ski segment leaderboards.  

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  • Yes to Stephen! Totally agree. Very difficult to get on a Nordic leaderboard if you primarily classic ski. Please consider dividing the activity into: Nordic (Skate) and Nordic (Classic). Same segments. Easy!

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  • I'm not a fan of the removal of so many Zwift segments from leaderboards. Who are Strava to decide which segments should and shouldn't be there? It should be community driven; wisdom of the crowd.

    As a subscriber I pay for the leaderboards feature and it's useful to see where I stack up against my friends.

    Now I see just 1 segment on some rides. Fat lot of use that is.

    By all means, chop out the duplicates and the ones with nonsensical names but please attempt to ensure close to 100% segment coverage of each route. Now there are gaps and even some reasonable climbs missing. 

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  • TRUE AGE-GROUP KOMS @PatrickMorris agree. Whilst I can still chase KOMs, it would be nice to know if I am 55, or 65, or 75 It will show an achievement. Perhaps not showing a Gringott's Vault of Crowns, but a nice Rosette. 

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  • ^ If you are a paid subscriber, with full access to the leaderboards, then it only takes one extra click to see the segment leaderboards by age group, if you are #1 in your age group should n't that be enough ?

    And if people are not willing to pay to subscribe, why should they get everything they desire from a free website ?

     

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  • I want to add Nordic Ski (and all the other) activities into Leaderboard for Club Athletes. It will allow followers to make all activities count on the leaderboard. The reason that is important is because of Leaderboards shows total activity time only for Swim, Runs and Cycle. An example of when I needed that was during winter time where our followers spend more time on Nordic skiing than running/cycling as they normally do during summer time. And they are frustrated that their time spent on Nordic Ski is not counting as an activity on the Leaderboard.

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  • ^ Let's hope it works ! At least we now know you are trying to do something about this problem.

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  • Jojo
    Thank you for a good answer to Jaisah's question.
    I have the same problem, and I think there are some possible remedies Strava could implement.

    In my case, there's a segment that used to go straight downhill, and now the clearly marked route is a series of switchbacks. Following advice here, I created a new segment, hoping that future matches would be better.

    However, that isn't working. New riders who cut the switchbacks still match, and old rides were matched to the new segment. Not only is it impossible to compete with the old matches, but this situation also encourages current riders to harm our trails by cutting the turns.

    See this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/20484448
    and the KOM from 2012 is clearly very different.

    It seems to me that 1) you could NOT match rides predating the segment, perhaps as an option when creating the segment, 2) possibly improve the matching algorithm (I realize that would also cause complaints), or 3) tighten the matching on segments that are marked or flagged as problematic.

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  • I agree with Jaisah Webb

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  • ^ How could they merge the segments and databases without merging the leaderboards ? Possibly they could if the databases had been future proofed many years ago with activity ID tags but it seems pretty obvious from many other problems that they did not ....of course, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing for us to have now ! How many e-bikes were around when strava started their segments, and database in 2009?

    keep e bikes separate, where they belong. (IMHO :-) )

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  • Jojo Jaisah Webb I raised this very issue back in November and still think within your database constraints it would be possible to archive segments and set start dates for mountain bike trails that have evolved over time.

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013367231

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  • Is it possible to increase the GPS drift tolerance for water sport segments. I'm trying to create some segments along a river that averages 30m in width. Multiple efforts along the same river will not yield a segment match because each route is not close enough to the original. Could strava increase the tolerance for watersports to remedy this?

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  • I totally agree with KJ Paul de Jong

    I know it may be shocking to some, but there are people who don't look at the Strava leaderboards.  They are out there enjoying the fresh air and use Strava for the maps, for the social aspect and for keeping track of their own data.  

    Is there a way to set "E-bike Ride" as default?  It might help for those new users, who might not realize that an "E-bike Ride" is not the same as a "Ride".

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  • Once again I want to revisit eliminating live Segments for downhill grades. I've really started to pay attention to what local Segments are live and which aren't, and there are so many grade inaccuracies in your database it's rather ridiculous. 

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  • I would love to be able to add a 'run up' to a segment and a 'run down' to make segments safer. To illustrate: One of my segments is safe and only contains bike lanes. However, to get the best times some riders leave the bike lane running up to the segment to cut a corner and increase the starting speed. The bike line makes a turn just after the segment but the 'kom hunters' leave the lane to prevent braking early. Altering the segment didn't help because they still think that braking ruins the segment, adding the corners makes it dangerous. If a 'run down' can be added everyone going for a personal best or KOM must take the corner.

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  • Is there a way to remove or hide "Last Week's Leaderboard" and only showcase "This Week's"? 

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  •  
    There is still no effective way to dismiss a 'live segment' once it is tracking. If you press Hide you are taken back to the feed, but record takes you back to the live tracking. If a popular segment goes 'live' before the one you have starred you will have to turn back/off the route as there is no way to dismiss then after they have started without stopping your recording. It is possible to dismiss only if you catch it in the 5 seconds it might be on the screen before going live, but if you aren't looking down it is too late. This an annoying timewaster trying to get off the tracking without having to break up you recording so you can get back to the segment you are actually interested in.
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  • I would consider paying for Strava if they separated the seasons. As per Mental mikes comment above our local trails top 30 are dominated by people riding fat bikes or e-bikes now. The trail system is full of punchy technical short climbs and roots and rocks that just turn into a speed way in the winter when the snow flattens everything out. Personally until Strava fixes this I have no interest in paying for it and if there was another app that did this I would just switch to that app.

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  • Running segments: the new/improved mobile maps/segments "feature" needs some serious improvement. I live near a small forest with a main track and a number of side / interconnecting tracks. there are segments in both directions on every track, sometimes multiples. the main one would be used multiple times every day, dozens on the weekend, sometimes by groups of 10-30 runners at a time. the segments have been there for a few years now, so there would be perhaps 1000 or more runs recorded per year on some.

    all this makes me wonder why premium account cannot "discover" any of these segments - not a single one - not even the ones where i'm on the leader board or am the local legend. there's a big blank spot on the map, an area surrounded by discoverable segments. others on free accounts can see perhaps 3 segments, and sometimes one or none when they zoom into places where there are only a handful of segments.

    why can't segments that are used less than those in the off screen surroundings be seen on the map? what's the point of keeping them secret?

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  • Tony Poole Actually, Strava is today able to detect that you are riding in group, it's already shown in your activity.

    But Strava is neither universal or Mandatory. I often ride with friends who are not on Strava. How Strava would detect that I'm riding in group?

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  • Hey Quick Rick! Thank you for taking the time to put together such detailed feedback - I will definitely pass this along to our Product Team for consideration in regard to the overall fairness of our segment leaderboards. In the meantime, I'd like to kindly reiterate that recumbent bikes are allowed to be used with the Ride activity type. You can find this clarification in our community segment leaderboard guidelines: 

     

    Guidelines for motorized and non-traditional bicycles:

    The Ride activity type is for conventional human-powered bicycles (including recumbents) riding outdoors. Do not use this activity type if your activity includes data recorded while driving a car, motorcycle, pacing a vehicle, using an electric bike, or another electric-assisted vehicle, using a non-traditional bicycle with full-farings or aerodynamic modifications including velomobiles, or using a GPS simulator program for virtual riding. 

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919507-Segment-Leaderboard-Guidelines

     

    However, at this time, we ask that athletes who use velomobiles and handcycles continue to use the specified activity type. As mentioned, we appreciate the feedback on how these two activity types are reflected in your profile statistics and will pass this along for future improvements! Thanks!

     

    Hi Shivam Shah! As many of your fellow athletes have suggested, you can create segments that account for any part of your activity. Because segment data is based on GPS, you will need to create your reverse segment that reflects that specific, directional GPS data - it is not possible to just run or ride an existing segment in the opposite direction. If it helps, here is a resource describing the segment creation process: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918157-Create-a-Segment. Thanks!

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  • Hi Steve Tucker - this is indeed the case now and glad you enjoy! Happy crown hunting! 

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  • https://support.strava.com/hc/fr/profiles/711597680-Varun-P-  thank you for your reply.


    As https://support.strava.com/hc/fr/profiles/1487453724-Ian-Barton and other point it out GPS Drift and poor device quality are a problem. He demonstrate the value of better crafted segment for the community (more attempts) and I guess it should also reduce fostering bad GPS devices (generally errors adds-up ! A bad pattern to be matched + a loosely defined trace => Random results !). And...prove that community members of good will,  want to --and can-- find solutions !

    Note as you mentioned "For example, if you have a road and a trail closely alongside it, and there are segments for both but the majority of people take the road, you could end up "averaging" out the trail segment towards the road." 
    An algorithm that would blindly average trace around a segment could...a smarter algorithm testing the possibility of a mixture a N segment, may do better....but a community of involved athlete would benchmark the only segment needing to be benchmarked ! Then you should obtain a much better results. I mean it s mostly a question of organising thing to prevent problematic segment to be created ! Concerning the "heritage", I understand things are a tad bit trickier (At least, in the case of the track and the road where the model averaging fall short.....I am not convinced that the 2 original Segment really create no matching problem at all. If not...there should be a larger variance around your average point..nothing that a mixture model couldn't fix).

    Really, I encourage you to think about taking advantage of the strava community, at least allow us to help in getting annoyance fixed. With all that being said, thank you for your prompt answers, it's much appreciated, I am eager to see if, in a way, we have helped you getting some annoyance fixed. (You have a pretty good record of improvement lately, congrats and just keep that pace !)
    Cheers

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  • There should differentiators between road bikes, MTB’s and eBikes. Each discipline should have own crown and leader board, and yes we can still an overall leaderboard and crown.

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  • Hi.
    One more for mtb category !
    It s more difficult than before to find good segments with strava.
    It will be great to have possibility to write information or a segment description : single track, easy, technical,... And a value of the segment.
    Thanks

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