Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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461 comments
  • Jason Lamoreaux

    I'm trying your suggestion here, "workout". I see there is workout as an activity, what you meant, and tagging a ride activity as workout.

    My most recent activity: received a 4th overall and best this year on leader board, but it is merely from low accuracy GPS data putting me on the wrong trail in Strava's algorithms.

    Setting activity to workout: yes, it removed all awards and the appearance in leader boards, at the expense of not logging my mileage, as exercised miles per month and mileage on a particular bike (e.g. time to replace the chain etc.)

    Activity as ride + setting the workout tag: no effect on segments tracking and leader boards, I'm now best this year on a segment I didn't actually travel on yesterday.

    What did suppress leader board input: setting a real world activity as virtual. I believe the mileage is still being logged for that, and maybe personal heatmap as well, two Strava features of interest to me.

     

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  • William O.

    Hi William - I'm not sure how this might work in practice.  Are you saying, for example, that if you see 2 Segments that have a 90% overlap you would organise some democratic vote by Strava users to decide which of the 2 Segments to keep and which to delete ?  What happens if a new user comes along and creates another overlapping Segment ?  Is a new vote needed or is creation of the new Segment blocked ? 

    Personally I think the current system of alerting Segment creators to the presence of potential duplicates works quite well.  Just yesterday I went to create a new Segment and I was alerted that there was already a very similar one - I hadn't seen it in my Activity because it was hidden.  Hence I cancelled my new Segment and unhid the old one - problem solved. 

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  • In addition to recognizing all-time KOMs and QOMs it would be really cool to see cyclists recognized within their age groups with Age group specific QOMs and KOMs. This would create more interest and competition among aging cyclists. It would incentivize older cyclists and even perhaps some younger cyclists to ride more.

    For example, I am 71 years of age. The playing field is stacked against me when measuring my performance against cyclists in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, or even in their 60s. This is disheartening and, is most likely, responsible for many aging cyclists loosing interest and quiting cycling altogether. But if there were age group specific QOMs and KOMs I am convinced cyclists would enjoy having their fastest times in their age group recognized by the cycling community. 🚲

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  • Ian Barton we really value your comments and you certainly bring up some valid points. I've passed your feedback along to our product team for consideration. The changes we rolled out to minimum segment distance were to make sure that newly created segments would result in more accurate leaderboards and reduce segment noise overall. There are minimum distance requirements for ride segments (500m) as well as other sport types (250m).

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  • I think Rolf N. has a point although it would mean another whole layer of separating data. Still, it could well be motivating to many.

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  • Some "Mercado Livre" couriers use Strava to record the distance traveled during their workday, this has been harming athletes in the region, every day we have to flag these activities and report these accounts.. Put an automatic filter, if the maximum speed is above 90km/h, it's already flagged, if it's a real athlete, report it as an error!

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  • @Rolf,

    They already do.  But it's just hard to find, hard to manage, and is different on the App than it is on the Website.

    When they make things hard to do, people don't do them.

     

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  • Jason Lamoreaux You totally get my points.

    Ian Barton You can find all the excuses to do nothing, but today, you have to be blind to think the existing way of doing is working fine...

    Just create clear guidlines for the segments, offer the Premium subscribtion to the moderators, and they'll spend hours to reduce the 32 millions segments to less than a million of "real" ones. 

     

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  • Jason,

    Sometimes...  Sometimes Not.

    "All they have to do is ..."

    If they were all doing this, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    People do not engage with software like those of us who write on Forums (like this).  They do the BARE MINIMUM to get an App going.  So don't make it easier to choose BIKE over EBIKE.

    How about a hierarchy, from Fastest to Slowest:

    When you select Bike, you get a list of options.  The default is Motorcycle, so that anybody with a motor does not accidentally take a KOM away from a Road Bicycle.  In other words, make the path of least resistance something that does not interfere with others.

    BIKES:
    ----> MotorCycle (fastest)    <--------- (((( DEFAULT ))))
    ----> E-Bike
    ----> Road Bicycle (pedal only - no motor)
    ----> Mtn Bicycle (pedal only - no motor)
    ----> tricycle  (slowest)

     

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  • I've been seeing emails ever since I first posted here. It's time to register a new opinion ...
    --> Strava the company should develop leader boards version 2.0. Test it for a while, then announce a changeover date.

    A version 2.0 concept:

    1) Players opt into the leaderboard 'game' - calling it what it is. Sure, let users know this feature exists, but then people take action to join the game. I suspect many users are like me, and aren't interested. Those who do are accepting the rules. It's an opt in, not an opt out, and not a no option (the version 1.0 approach). That change alone I suspect would cut much of the noise out of this game. 

    2) An expanded activity file format, or scheme of files, with digital signatures. The platform which records the activity signs the data with a private key which is tied to a combination of the recording application and the user. So the server side can look at the data and say: this was actually recorded by John Smith with Strava's Android app. This one was recorded by Jane Doe on a Garmin model X. No completely fake data. Let the old applications and file format still work, the content just can't reach to the new leaderboards. With the next firmware update on the platform, it becomes available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature

    3) Capture the accuracy of the GPS data, in addition to lat, long, and altitude. A Google search for the Android API suggests that accuracy can be fetched from the GPS hardware. Set some minimum standard for the recording quality. Every game has its rules like how many stitches are on a regulation baseball. Let this game have some too.

    4) Some algorithm like ... if the result is very high on leaderboard and more than 10% faster than the athlete ever ran it before, prompt the player to positively affirm the validity - that they were not accidentally recording in a car, or recording a bike ride as run. They were not on e-bike.

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  • Ian Barton, Jason Lamoreaux

    There is definitely an issue with poorly made segments and I really don't think it is an insurmountable problem to appoint some local moderators based on various criteria. I would see this as a group of people who would vote on matters rather than a single all powerful individual. Maybe the whole top 10 local legends just as an example, that would keep a bit more consistency and also spread the work around.

    I don't think there need be any alarm over removing segments. I would suggest that nothing is removed, but made private instead. Although I also really like Ian's idea about "validated" segments (or I might term them "community" segments).

    You could make these validated segments more special. These would be calculated first by Strava servers. You could say that you only get a XOM on these segments and others you get a 1st Trophy. Strava could apply more thorough checking on these segments for ebikes, vehicles, GPS errors, etc. Also the local moderators could apply a bit of human level checking on these.

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  • Ian Barton - I totally agree that each person's personal experience is going to be a little different and not everyone is looking for the same stuff out of a given application.  I do find it interesting, though, that you claim you are happy with Strava's product, but yet you still feel the need to pay extra money to a separate application to get what you want out of it.  If you are so happy with what Strava provides as-is, why do you need a separate program?  Some of us feel that when we see improvements or things we would like to get out of a program that don't currently exist, maybe that program can improve.  

    You also keep mentioning "new" segments, ones that have been created recently.  I'm not nearly as concerned about new ones (although it would be nice to send a note to someone if they create a poor one asking for them to consider tweaking it to fix a start/end point or use a better GPS file), as I am about the multitude of old segments that clutter the system from the last 10+ years.  You wouldn't need to have 300+ hidden segments if there was a mechanism to either fix or remove them.  Unfortunately, early on in the Strava evolution, a lot of people created segments that were suggested by Strava programming and those with little understanding of the program just went with it, resulting in tons of bad segments.  I can't begin to count the number of segments titled "unnamed road climb" or other similar generic name that means nothing and often isn't even on a road in the first place.  Strava has improved over the years, but that hasn't fixed what was already logged into the system previously.  Just like you want the results in segments cleaned up for erroneous activities, we want the segment database cleaned up for erroneous segments themselves.

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  • Alex Dimitriou

    Hi Alex - you suggested cutting the number of Strava Segments by at least 96% (from 32 million to less than 1 million).  Based on my experience, that would be excessive.  Here's the analysis of my last ride showing the Segments...

     

    The above certainly shows some Segment overlap, especially between miles 20 and 22, but I don't see any actual duplication (I don't think the overlap is anywhere more than 80%).  Maybe 1 or 2 of the Segments on this Activity could be removed but most seem just fine to me.

    How does this sort of Activity summary compare with what others see ?

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  • Dan Dan Monk - Strava can't tell if you are riding in a group or solo.  It isn't even remotely accurate.  At best, it can tell if you are in the general vicinity, but that is about it.  No way it can determine if you are in a paceline or working together in any way.  It is fairly common that I get back from rides and have Strava note that I "rode with" so and so, someone I don't recall even seeing or maybe just caught up to and passed at some point.  Even in races, it says I rode with a number of others when we were never even close to each other except for at the start line, often out of sight of each other.  I totally get the frustration of people getting faster segment times when they work in a group, but the reality is that Strava does not have any accurate way to determine that with their data analysis.  Heck, GPS positioning isn't accurate enough to determine that if it wanted.  The GPS is often off by 20' or more, so no way it is going to tell which one of you is drafting off the other.

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  • Jason Lamoreaux - I agree with your assessment of GPS accuracy in Strava. The inaccuracy of various GPS recording devices, combined with Strava not interpolating the segment start and end data points, means segment times can be off by several seconds. As far as Strava determining that someone was drafting behind someone else; it is simply not going to happen. The timestamp on the logged GPS data points is coming from the device’s internal clock, not from the GPS signal. Depending on when a device’s time was updated, there could be a difference of a couple of seconds. The leaderboards are good for a rough comparison of performance, but should be taken with a grain of salt.

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  • Jason Lamoreaux

    I totally agree with you that Strava can't tell, however it would be nice if people could tag their own rides as group rides.

    Either as a "type of ride" or as a "tag".

    Either way this requires honestly on the part of the rider, but what doesn't in Strava?

    Perhaps Strava could provide some incentives for riders to do this? Group achievements? Group map types? Group flyby feature?

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  • Jason, I think you’ve got the wrong Dan!

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  • We love the dialogue happening here, thanks for all the great suggestions and contributions, we'll definitely take all of this into consideration.

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  • Sorry if I'm being stupid but . . . the format of group leaderboards seems to have changed.

    It used to show total distance, longest single distance, average speed, and total vertical ascent, all of which I found interesting.

    It now seems to have changed to just show total ride time, total swim time, total run time etc, no mention of distance, speed, or ascent.

    Is this just a setting that I've selected by accident ? If yes, how do I reverse it ? I've looked but can't find it. If it's not something that I can re-configure, please can we have the old style back ?

    Thank you . . .

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  • I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this but here goes; Can we please merge the Segments for biking and E-biking? I'm not suggesting merging the leaderboards because obviously that wouldnt be fair, what I mean is that the segments are still the same. I have a regular pedal bike and an E-bike and it's a pain in the butt having to create new segments for all of the existing segments that have already been created on the biking part of Strava. I would like to be able to compare my efforts between the two sports and against my friends regardless of whether I am on an E-bike or bike. Surely it wouldnt be hard to just copy-paste or merge the two databases of segments? Again, I'm not saying we should merge the leaderboards, but the two sports shouldn't be so separated. On the descents there isnt much difference between a bike or E-bike and it would be cool to see the two leaderboards side by side. It feels like segregation between those who ride bikes and those who ride E-bikes. 

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  • Please don’t segregate Ebikes from regular bikes. I understand that the leaderboards need to be separate but the segments themselves should be the same. I’ve been biking for years and making segments or using existing segments in Strava but now I have an ebike and all of the segments I have created and the wealth of other existing segments are gone. The ebike side of Strava is incredibly bare. Almost every time I go for a ride I have to create new segments. This is ridiculous. Ebikes are not an all new sport they are just a variation of bikes and should have the same segments. I think it would also be useful for the leaderboards to be somewhat integrated such as having “All Time”, “All Time Ebike” so you can compare times side by side. I can’t even see my friends times to compare with my own. This needs to be fixed ASAP. It’s really destroying my interest in Strava if I can’t compare with my friends or even compare with my own times on a regular bike (I still own both) on a segment.

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  • Jason Lamoreaux I would think maybe a button you could click that says snow vs dirt maybe. Anything would be nice instead of having the top 50 riders being riders in the snow on our local trails.

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  • It would be a very good addition if we could filter the winter month from the summer. Since fatbike is a completely different sport, the downhill sections are most of the time faster than in summer and vice-versa for the climb. It creates some bizarre leaderboard were all the fastest time are in winter. The exact opposite is also true for the climbs...

     

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  • Hi community, as many people said already i would love to see a MTB category; personally, in the area where i live there is a lot of off-road and tarmac routes, which make me prefer the MTB, but, compared to all road cycle bikers, my effort is (obviously) different, and i'm usually very slow compared to them.

    What i ask is to finally see a MTB category, so i can compare my tarmac performance with all people on the same boat of me.

    Thank you in advance!

    Diego

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  • Erik Bakke the segment you shared is a virtual segment from a virtual ride. Virtual activity should not be flagged if it is correctly identified as a virtual activity. Here is more information about flagging Virtual Trainer Activities: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919587-Virtual-Trainer-Activities-on-Strava#flagging

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  • Troy - mark your old rides as private is one way.

     

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  • I think it's a pity that there is no indication of the age in the ranking of the segments. When you are 40/50/60 years old and you manage to appear in the top 25, I think it is an achievement and deserves to be highlighted. There should be an additional field for age in the ranking line. Also, in the segment presentation, the best times and names by age category should be shown.

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  • Segments Leaderboard to factor in the type of bicycle we are using..

    I only ride an MTB and while commuting I mostly use tarmac roads. The downside of this is that I am nowhere on the leaderboards because they're all TT bike times. It's important to me that I can thoroughly understand my fitness compared with other riders on MTB and not road bikes or TT bikes.

    Furthermore, certain singletracks I ride are only metres from the roads and it is impossible for an MTB to achieve KOM/QOM on these segments because of road bikes.

    Please add the type of bike to the leaderboard so we can more fairly reach achievements.

    Thanks!

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  • It can indeed be frustrating if you are trying to make the top ten on a leaderboard.  While I'm not sure anything can be done about groups or e-bikes, I personally don't think that it's too much to ask the Strava algorithm to do better at eliminating bogus results.  One example:  the top fifty for one segment that I ride is coming out of a parking lot where people obviously forgot to turn off Strava at the end of their ride.  Those top fifty speeds are more than or equal to what a pro peloton could do in the last km of a stage sprint finish.  It would be easy for an algorithm to eliminate all of these, especially if there was a way to report the problem to Strava.  Who has the time to flag fifty bogus segments?  Finally, given all the problems with bad data, I've settled on competing with myself as the best use of marked segments.  I got a #2 overall trophy this weekend, but I was in a group with a strong tailwind.  You're never going to eliminate this kind of thing, other than saying, e.g., that 40 mph is unreasonable on a flat segment, while 30 mph is not.

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  • Hi, I'm just asking for one thing. The most popular segment in my city - Road To Tskaltubo - does not show up on the map. If you could somehow put in on the map, that would be great.

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