Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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329 comments
  • Can strava explore the option of archiving segments or filtering future segments to omit any entries prior to a certain date? The option would serve to assist in particular mountain bike trails that evolve or upgraded over time. An example locally (but there are half a dozen I can think of) is a significant trail that was once a very steep and straight up and down track being completley reworked with much longer trail with around 20 switchbacks. Times posted prior to the changes up and down were much quicker than current times (even though it is now easier) due to being far more direct. The ability to archive a previous segment prior to the changes and allowing a newly created segment to omit any result prior to the date of the trails modifications would produce a far more accurate set of results.

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  • Why doesn't strava sanction people who open sabotage the system?

    In my region there is a single person who, for several months now, pollutes the segments with fake data produced by a script. As it seems, to annoy some users having the KOMs on that segments. He uploads the same identical fake data on up to 10 accounts to get not only the KOM but also the first 10 positions and giving the activities titles like "Script was faster than you".

    Strava was informed about that in endless Support requests from multiple users but always only deleted single activities - the fake accounts stay active, so that the next day the person uploads all data again.

    After several months of that behaviour, the leader boards here have gotten utterly useless.

    So when is strava starting to implement it's rules? Why should it be a problem to sanction users with complete expellation from strava?

    https://www.strava.com/activities/4316263360

    https://www.strava.com/segments/17780214?filter=overall

    https://www.strava.com/segments/17790914?filter=overall (This segment is part of the international road race Rund um den Finanzplatz Frankfurt at 1th May every year https://www.eschborn-frankfurt.de/de/home!)

    It seems to me strava allows the platform to become completely destroyed with their laxness.

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  • Hey strava community team. As a Zwift leader and a IRL Club route designer, i'm worried about the increasingly eroded user experience around segment leaderboards.

    Issue: #1: i post leaderboards for segment efforts after each SMITE ride in zwift on saturdays, and periodically with our IRL club, however, the 'club' filter mechanism often RETURNS 0 records.

    Issue #2: The filter mechanism itself is of little use because the only options are 'today', 'weekly', 'monthly', 'yearly' and all-time. The ability to target a specific date would give it greater utility, because presumably, if you are there to mine data for a single data, you may not be fortunate enough to be there on the exact date you and your club rode. Examining the difference between the following use-cases would reveal that most of us are looking for specific data, not generalized data.
    - "I want to find out what happened on date xyz, becuase it was a fondo event i participated in" Is probably more likely than "i wonder who was the fastest rider in month x of this current year".

    Issue #3:The removal of our ability to create segments in areas where there are many duplicates demonstrates an architectural issue that only appears with scale. I hope this is temporary, because it is killing a lot of use cases where competitive races that identify certain segments, would like to capture their results. Most of my competitive segments in Zwift have been irreversibly marked 'private' and i can no longer use them on behalf of my clubs. IRL segments are less of an issue because there is less duplication. I would recommend allowing us to create as many segments as we want, but to place a cap on query retrieval that is filtered by 'popularity'. However, the continued ability to harvest data for less popular segments should remain. Throw some NFRs in the backlog to improve scaling with this feature, or at least tell us what your plans are on this front.

    I know this type of refactoring takes time and effort, especially if short-cuts were built into the architecture in order to focus on user adoption years ago. I get it. But tech debt has a habit of coming back to haunt us with exponential delivery and maintenance effort, so it can't go ignored for too long. Give your engineering team 20% of their iterative budget allocation to focus on tech debt and architectural integrity - i trust them.

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  • Strava's running segment leaderboards are relatively clean. Having recently started to do more long walks as part of an injury recovery plan, I have glanced at the walking segment leaderboards for the first time and have been quite shocked to see how much junk data there is on there.

    There are impossible segment efforts from people who clearly have been in a car; perhaps forgetting to turn their watch off after their genuine activity and driving home. Then there are those who were obviously on bikes.

    I don't need a leaderboard to walk and enjoy my walks but considering we are paying for this feature, there needs to be some attention given to cleaning this up. One local segment here has at least the first few pages filled with junk data.

    There is a portion of the data that is so wildly impossible (like 1 minute km splits for a 'walking' activity) I just don't understand how there is not some automatic program in place to weed these ones out.

    I think there needs to be a deterrent as well for these junk uploads to leaderboards. A three strike and you are out kind of rule. That's not to say banned from the site, but perhaps excluded from leaderboards for a period of time as a suspension period.

    It's not hard to be mindful of uploading true and proper accounts of activities and there does need to be a collective sense of goodwill from users to make the platform work. But knowing there will always be those who knowingly do the wrong thing or are just careless, Strava needs to step in with a framework to restrict these people from leaderboards if they continue to litter them with junk data, bringing down the usefulness of the feature for everyone else.

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  • @Matthew Lee

    This may be controversial, but I think there is no reason for walking segments to be separate from hiking and running segments. All of these are done on the same paths.

    I've seen some cases when times on steep uphill hiking segments are better than times on identical running segments. Having parallel sets of segments just adds to the mess. It may be a good idea to be able to filter segment leaderboards by sport, but segments themselves need to be shared.

    Regarding polluting walking segments, I suspect that most walkers who upload their activities are not even aware of segments because Strava doesn't surface walking segments in the same way it surfaces running and cycling segments. Banning users isn't a good solution, but Strava should have a reasonable way to auto-validate a segment effort instead of blindly accepting any segment matches.

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  • Stanislav C.

    Thank you for your feedback regarding my comment and adding to the conversation.

    I like your suggestion of filtering segment leaderboards by sport rather than creating dual leaderboards for walking and running. Either way, I think it is important for people who are hiking or walking to be able to see how they are going against other like-minded individuals.

    When I am returning to running by doing my long walks, I put the effort in similar to a run and it's nice to see how my pace compares to others in this respect. I have also recently taken up hiking and often cover long distances, so it's nice again to see how my performance (not trail running) compares to others.

    The issue of junk data in the segment leaderboards is definitely more a concern for electric bikes corrupting standings for mountain bike and road biking activities. That said, there are numerous segments where I live where the running top spot is incredibly dubious at best.

    As you mention, there needs to be an automatic process to invalidate impossible segment efforts, leaving a smaller number of questionable entries that can then be left to human moderators to verify. I saw one 'walk' where someone drove 40-odd kilometres on a highway, forgetting to turn their watch off after their actual walk. This kind of activity should be automatically weeded out.

    I also think there needs to be some accountability about junk data. There are accidental uploads (forgetting to turn the watch off driving home) and then there are those who do wish to cheat (using an electric scooter to record a run). But users who continue to muddy the leaderboards should face some kind of action. I am not suggesting they be banned altogether, but I think their ability to interact with the segment leaderboards should be curtailed. This could be a sliding scale of short suspensions through to total disablement of the feature. Without consequences, there is no encouragement for people to either not seek to cheat the leaderboards or be careless uploading incorrect sport types against the activity performed - i.e. recording a bike ride as a run.

    My suggestion for managing this moving forward is for Strava to:

    1. Introduce an automatic process to immediately weed out impossible activities

    2. Continue allowing users to flag activities that are dubious for human review

    3. Caution users who continue to be responsible for junk activities in segment leaderboards

    4. Have a sliding scale of penalties for repeat offenders ranging from temporary to permanent exclusion from contributing to leaderboards

    For me, I don't need a leaderboard or a standing to get out and be active. But since I am paying for Strava's extra features and genuinely don't mind doing so since I enjoy the app, I think it is important we have integrity with the leaderboards to keep them clean and meaningful.

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  • Leaderboard exclusion is easy for runner and roadcycle. It will be a problem for MTB.
    Every month, some guys shortcut some technical singles and damage the shappers work to try to win the precious KOM. Shortcuts are under GPS precision limit. And they win only some minutes. Undetectable except by local rider.
    Local rider could be another way to validate some controversial results

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  • Leaderboards for segments are always polluted with activites with poor GPS (ie. using strava app on phones is a big culprit) or activities when users are in a vehicle. I recall strava had implemented auto filtering of impossible achievements in the leaderboard? obviously not very effective.

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  • I want to see my performance on segments with race events filtered out.

    We had a 4 day race in the area with hundreds of pro racers from all over. Their times now overwhelmingly dominate the leaderboards for the race segments, which happen to be very popular local trails.

    It would be great to have a filter to just hide race days.

    Here is one example segment that illustrates the problem:

    https://www.strava.com/segments/17784810?filter=overall

     

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  • I would love to see the addition of Top 10 results on a users profile, just as KOM/CR's are. This would increase engagement of the user base who are into these things. Sometimes a Top 10 time can be a huge achievement in its on right and would align to the publicly acknowledgement of such. Plus the data is all there currently so wouldn't be such a huge change. 

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  • Is there any particular reason why people can trail run the hiking segment boards but you can't say roller blade the running segments or use an e-bike on the bike sections. I'm asking for a friend.

     

    Sure, they are similar sports, but hiking and running are vastly different for instance. When I run, I wear shorts, running shoes and no pack. When I hike I often have a 20lb pack, light hikers or even heavy boots, and probably some clothes (vs running clothes on). Basically different sports.

     

    Some of the times on the CRs are not possible without at least running part of the segment and if you look at peoples GPS logs, they clearly ran. 12 min mile on a 2000 vertical gain in 3 miles is probably possible but highly unlikely, as an example. I'd be willing to bet that person couldn't race walk a 12 minute mile on fllat ground. Strava needs to do a better job with filtering out running gaming the system. 

     

     

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  • It would be great if segment leaderboards could be viewed as histograms, x-axis time and y-axis number of rider that achieved this time. This would be a great way to visualize how fast people ride segments.

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  • I notice a bunch of similar complaints/comments in here but would have to agree with the onslaught of E-Biker's happily taking away KOM's and smashing their own previous PR's by recording their rides as normal "acoustic" rides.

    I even have an uptake in my own riding friends that couldn't care less tbh, and basically pat themselves on the back for smashing a KOM on their new "assisted" bikes. Pretty lame on their part, but not worth the argument about it from my side.

    This does put me off an actual subscription though, as segment times and PRs have no actual real relevance while this is occurring. All I focus on currently is beating my own PR's and assuming all others ahead may or may not be legit. 

    Maybe a simple prompt that pops up when someone does get a KOM or PR to acknowledge they are in the right category (you'll probably need to be as specific as "were you riding an E-Bike?" though). If they acknowledge it still after that, then it just sits with the character of the person from there and I'm sure they're the same with other things outside of Strava. :)

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  • "Maybe a simple prompt that pops up when someone does get a KOM or PR to acknowledge they are in the right category (you'll probably need to be as specific as "were you riding an E-Bike?" though). If they acknowledge it still after that, then it just sits with the character of the person from there and I'm sure they're the same with other things outside of Strava. :)"

    Yes, perhaps with the hiking segments a prompt, "did you run ANY portion of this segment?" if the answer is yes, it's a trail run. If no, congrats, it's a hike. And if you did but you clicked no, you are probably a cheater in life anyway.

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  • I get the concerns with ebikes on pedal bike leader boards.  That is flat out cheating.

    But I don't get the running vs. hiking vs. walking concern.  If one wants to be competitive for bi-ped locomotion then focus on the running leaderboards.

    As primarily a hiker, occasional walker and rare runner I always use the Strava running category so all my bi-ped activities are tracked as one for total mileage and also (this is the main reason) so Strava will record the activity on my personal heatmap (which walking and hiking do not).  As a hiker I have zero reason to use any category other than running.

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  • I want Strava to add interpolation between points when there is more then 1 second between 2 points. The reason that is important is because the segment leaderboard will be more fair. 

    For example: Segment https://www.strava.com/segments/26377494 

    1. In 30 seconds with an average of 33.6km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4450098785/analysis/1723/1740)
    2. In 32 seconds with an average of 31.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4437581033/analysis/1866/1887)
    3. In 33 seconds with an average of 33.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4433313255/analysis/9336/9368)

    Nr 1 and 2 have a device that has a variable GPS interval recording. Sometimes it is each second, but it also can be 5 seconds in between 2 points. Some people also have a device with GPS interval of 5 seconds.

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  • Pieter Godderie, interpolation has been suggested many times already, both in this version of the forum and in the previous version. I am pretty sure Strava is aware of that suggestion. They mention that themselves here:

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918227-Optimizing-Segment-Creation-how-to-create-good-segments

    Recording intervals vary between devices - for example, the Strava mobile app records every second while Garmin devices use either 1-second intervals or a smart recording which has a varied recording interval. Segment matching works the same on each GPS dataset, but depending on the device's recording interval, can yield different results. Segment matching uses the GPS points in the data closest to the start and endpoints of the segment, and as this can vary with each activity, timing on a segment can vary slightly because of this. At the present time, we don't interpolate or extrapolate GPS data to normalize for the exact start and end positions of the segment. 

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  • Please allow all devices to sync more than 100 starred segments.  This will enable me to start using Live Segments reliably.  I have been a long term Strava user and have over 200 starred segments.  With the current 100 limit it is a lottery as to whether any given starred segment will appear in my Live Segments display.  Hammerhead tell me this is a general Strava API limit that applies to all devices and this makes sense given what I have seen on this issue across other forums.  Surely the data volume involved is tiny compared to the value it would give to Strava's most valuable customers, i.e. those that have been paying for many years and have accumulated a lot of starred segments.

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  • Alex Stewart as an eBike rider, I have zero reason to use any category other than "ride". If I use "eBike Ride" I get a dramatic functionality drop (no heatmap, no segment search, no live segments, no Google Fit, and more).

    I would say that eBikes issue is 90% a (lack of) functionality problem and 10% intentional cheating .

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  • The problem with your rationale Carlos Vigo is that it's probably 90% acoustic riders vs 10% e-bike riders using Strava, so you're then destroying the majority of the end users chances of achieving genuine relevant goals.

    I would be just pushing the Strava team to "fix" the functionality you are missing, rather than be part of the problem being discussed in this thread? 

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  • I agree Murray R. Actually, I am recording as eBike but cancelled my summit subscription until Strava gives eBikes the same functionality than acoustic.

    BTW, I beg you all to vote for my request on that sense :-)

    https://support.strava.com/hc/es-es/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013091092

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  • Allow some way for users to vote to "unflag" a segment that has been incorrectly flagged as hazardous.  Right now, it just takes one person to flag a segment as hazardous and nobody has any recourse.  One malicious person can ruin segments for everyone else.  There are a few where I ride that were flagged as hazardous, yet there is nothing hazardous about them.  Most likely, it was a NIMBY who wasn't happy with the new trails being legally built in the area.  Unfortunately, nothing could be done except to create new duplicate segments.  

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  • Official segments for race organizers, local experts, etc.

    In some areas (typically famous cycling climbs), there are too many segments and a lot of them are not properly created (end after cross section, wrong start, etc.). There is the possibility to hide them and some are hidden by default but it is not always the best one that is shown. It would be great to create an "official" segment category (and maybe "official KOM title") for some famous climbs. Those segments would be highlighted.

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  • Contest on a segment for a period of time (race on a segment)

    With the covid period, some race organizers has created competitions based on Strava segments (e.g. Salomon Golden segments, etc.). It would be great to have a Strava feature for organizing a competition on a segment.

    There would be needed:

    • possibility to register for the competition (free or not, racer details, etc.)
    • show and acknowledge the rules (e.g. make the activity public immediately after the end of the activity, use an heart rate monitor, etc.)
    • create a specific leaderboard (only registered users for the contest and only during a period of time)
    • maybe some more tools for race organizers (segment creation, help for detection of cheated data, age categories leaderboards, registration platform, etc.)
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  • PLEASE ADD FILTERS AND SORTING TO "MY SEGMENTS" AND (IF POSSIBLE) "SEGMENT EXPLORER". I don't think this is too much to ask.

    Filters/sort like distance, KOM time, or grade are some simple ones to implement you would think.

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  • Currently, Nordic Skiing and Running share the same leaderboard, which should not be the case. It is substantially easier to outpace a runner on skis, especially if the skis in question are roller skis or if the segment has a negative grade.

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  • Steven Zeller - Are you sure about that?  When I look, Nordic skiing and running have their own segments and leaderboards.  There are a few random occurrances where someone recorded their ski as a "run" initially and then changed it later and for some reason they still show on the run leaderboard, but that is very rare.  99.9% of the time, when they change, they are removed from the running leaderboards and added to the Nordic ski segment leaderboards.  

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  • Hi there I am quite new to this Strava forum format but I would like to suggest that if an individual were to attempt a cycling KOM/QOM then he or she should be using a powermeter in order to qualify for a STRAVA KOM or segment attempt. I mean its ridiculous to have a segment where the top 10 riders all used a vehicle to get their times. Why should we pay for premium to compare our times with cheaters who use cars or motorised vehicles in their attempts then spend 20 min flagging them, then only come back to see their attempts have been unflagged. It's an utter joke that this is allowed, you should seriously look into fixing it as I will not be renewing my membership if this goes on 

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  • Andy Saiden - There are multiple issues with that. Mainly, not that many people really have power meters on their bikes or have them on all of their bikes.  Requiring the use of a power meter would be requiring everyone to spend a lot of money on equipment.  Personally, I have power meters on two bikes, but I race and chase KOMs on 5 (TT, Road, Cross, Mountain, and Snow).  Also, I don't even know if any power meters integrate with the Strava phone apps or not.  If they don't, it would be limiting the segment feature to those who also have separate devices such as a Garmin or similar.  

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  • I agree with Tue Søeborg about downhill segments not being live anymore. I get the safety (and probably liability) aspect, but it's disappointing that I can no longer see where I stand live on segments that I could see live in the past. I like the waiver idea, and came here to say the same. We already to it for segments flagged as hazardous.

    Continuing on, it's extremely frustrating that Strava is weeding out all live segments that are <= -.25%. There are many long segments with rolling terrain that barely miss being "live" then. I rode one a couple days ago that was -.3%, but involved a ton of rolling hills over 1.2 miles. If Strava persists in eliminating live downhill segments, at least up the grade threshold, as the chosen grade is way too restrictive, IMO.

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