Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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344 comments
  • Jaisah Webb - what is the point in wanting to compare your e-bike times with others not on e-bikes - it's not a relative comparison. I can only assume it is to make you happy that you bought an E-Bike because you can smash people without them?

    It's basically like comparing times of a Horse in a Donkey race.

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  • I think there is an easy solution and that is for Strava to ask for the type of bike at the end of the recording, especially if the time is leadership material. I held the leadership roll for a ride for a while because I was on a ski lift! Strava makes it really easy to mislabel a ride. I didn't even know until it was flagged. 

    That said, I am not even sure all these mislabeled ebike rides are nefarious. I have a suspicion that many of the people who have the leadership position due to an ebike never even look at the leadership board. They are just using the map and their own personal data. This controversy is Strava's fault, not the riders in probably 99% of the cases!

    The solution is so simple. If the user has not input their bike data, they should be asked to verify the type of bike (or if it was even a bike... in my case skis) at the end of the ride! Just a few extra buttons and then the rider would be forced to intentionally lie. This would solve 99% of the cases and the few actual liars could be easily shamed. As it is now, the 1% of ego maniacs' can hide under the 99% who just don't care about the leadership board like me.

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  • > But when you have one that's barely -1 or even -2% over several miles it just makes no sense.

    Now imagine that the same applies to running segments as well. Banning those from syncing to my Fenix watch has even less sense. But Strava still does that.

    But at the same time I have a segment that literally goes to a top of a mountain and then back to the start on a 20% downhill slope. And since that is a net 0% segment, apparently syncing that to a Garmin device is fine.

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  • Peter Cajthaml - I agree that those two ideas would remove an unwanted KOM, but it would also take away from what the rider actually did.  If it were me, I wouldn't want to crop out part of my workout that I actually did.  I rode the distance/time, put in the work associated.  Cropping out a section in the middle would mean I would lost the credit for doing that effort.  It would also break up a larger continuous activity.  When looking back at rides, it is better for me to see the ride as a whole rather than multiple broken up files that happen to almost connect (except for what was cropped out).  Sometimes a segment matching error happens in the middle of another larger segment as well, so I would be losing out on the larger segment(s) or other overlapping segments by making the edit for the one.  A better solution would be for Strava to allow for someone to manually disassociate a segment from their ride.  It could be a simple check box or button just like the "hide segment" button.  

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  • I cant speak for running as I never use Strava for this but for rides;

    1) I think anything that shows a segment speed over 70kph / 43mph on a near-flat road should be auto-flagged.
    2) Anything flagged should have the ability to flag the specific segment of the ride.

    There are segments all over the places which are either clearly driven in cars or, the GPS data is bad and warps between 2 points.

    I ride track as a sprinter and at my performance peak I could only really hit 67kph max and that was on a super-smooth velodrome with a track-specifc bike... and I am generally one of the faster guys!

    This is an example: the top 30 riders all had speeds of over 80kph for the sprint segment.... to put into perspective, that is Chris Hoy's max speed recorded in an olympic Keirin race.

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  •  

    Please consider "snow biking" a separate leaderboard.

    In some highly technical trail systems that see a lot of winter use, a gnarly rocky/rooty trail system will fill into to become  a bobsled course with the perfect freeze thaw cycles once every 2 or 3 years. Is it FUN? OH YEAH,  but not it's just not the same trail.

    here is an example of a segment that has existed for about 4 years. suddenly on  late Feb to early March 2021 conditions were perfect and the leaderboard got destroyed. In the top 30 there is only 1 Non winter time.   the entire trail network is like this. Here and on many other technical trail systems that see winter traffic.

    The leader board then becomes a list of people who were out on those "special days" and becomes useless the other  363 days of the year as it was 20-25% faster on those perfect days discouraging the friendly competitive nature that make Strava so fun.

    Less technical "flow trails" would also benefit with a "snow biking" category.  in many of those cases dirt will have considerably more grip than snow so for the winter season,  strava loses its fun competitive nature on those  trail networks.

    It is also incredibly easy for locals to identify the "snow bikers" simply based on date and impossible to hide from it. So flagging would be very straightforward and non-offensive. Just switch the category...the ride isn't lost and there is still a leaderboard to compete on 365 days a year

    Maybe to clean up broken historical  leaderboards,  existing rides that are flagged as "snow biking" between Dec-Mar in the northern hemisphere would automatically be recategorized unless denied by the user.

    Overall I can see this as a very positive improvement to strava without major drawbacks or conflict. and should hopefully be able to  integrate easily into the existing system easily

     

     

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  • Tony Poole - How would Strava be able to know if a ride was part of a "group" ride where drafting potentially impacted the speeds?  So far, they have not been very successful when trying to identify when a person rode with another person.  I get listed on my activities as having run or ridden with so and so all the time when it is rarely accurate.  Many times, I never even see the person I supposedly rode with, I just happen to be following a similar route around the same time.  Heck, even in races when there others around, there is no way to identify if my effort was assisted by others.  In a time trial or a hill climb, I could be riding within 10-20 seconds of others, but never get any benefit of any draft, yet it would claim I was riding with others and would remove me from eligibility for segment leaderboards even though my effort was a solo, unassisted effort.  

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  • Jason Lamoreaux,Tony Poole
    Keep in mind that not everybody uses Strava. "Solo" would degenerated into "not in a group of Strava users".

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  • In my local area there has been some good competition on some Segments with the KOM changing hands 4 or 5 times between 2 or 3 riders.  It would be nice if there were a way to capture some of this competition.  The Segment leaderboards only show the PB for each athlete and so there is no way to see an old KOM performance if it is no longer the athlete's PB.  Could we perhaps have a small table in each Segment to show the evolution of the KOM performances ?  As well as seeing how the KOM has switched between different riders over time, it would be interesting to see the overall rate of improvement in the KOM performance as Strava attracts more users.

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  • Strava prevents flagging some activities saying they've been "resolved".

    I don't know what resolution has occurred, but look at this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/26782084?filter=overall

    The KOM is a low wattage, and the user admits to entering a deceitful or erroneous weight to achieve it.

    So the KOM is admittedly wrong, the user has admitted it, and when contacting Strava support they just shrug you off and say it's user patrolled (which is prevented here as it's "resolved").

    Strava needs to maintain the integrity of KOM's or the platform will go the way of myspace, becoming irrelevant - either by enabling users to (more than current) or having an appeals process that results in more than a PFO go put a complaint on our community boards.

     

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  • We know how frustrating it is when you give a segment your best and think that the crown might be yours. But you head to the leaderboard only to find that the fastest activity seems off, due either to bad GPS data or incorrect activity type.

    We hear you, and we’re working to fix it. Here’s how we’re tackling the issue:

    Identifying incorrect activity type – If an athlete misclassifies their activity (i.e., ride for run, e-bike for bike, etc.), Strava will now suggest that they change the activity type to reduce the amount of miscategorized uploads you encounter on leaderboards.  
    Partial activity exclusion – Strava’s auto-detection tool used to exclude an entire activity if a single segment effort had bad GPS data. We’ve upgraded the tool to enable partial exclusion, so if one segment effort does have lousy data, the rest of the activity will stay intact and remain eligible to compete on other segment leaderboards.  
    Retroactive leaderboard cleanup – Our team is making the effort to check historical leaderboard data so that all efforts you see there are legitimate. But because GPS technology has evolved over the years, scrubbing older activity data warrants different solutions than more recent ones. This work is ongoing.

    We’re committed to fair competition, and to ensuring that segment leaderboards are accurate, reliable and fun. Thanks for your patience as we continue to work toward removing invalid efforts from Strava, and for continuing to help us in flagging the efforts you see that don’t look right. You can continue to do so from the web.

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  • I completely agree with Willem O! The woman I flagged last week initially just unflagged everything- so I left a comment in the most recent activity, asking her to reclassify and explaining why I’d flagged her rides. She replied “Ok, thanks!” and did as I’d asked. Obviously despite spending AGES writing comments on each one to justify the flag, as asked in the STRAVA form, this information was not passed on to her and she had NO IDEA what the flagging meant.

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  • Hi! We have a local (male) athlete who changed his gender on strava to 'be funny' and 'prove a point.' In doing so, he takes many female QOMs and makes a mockery of trans athletes. He is not trans, but is just doing this to ridicule trans athletes and to prove that he can. Is there a way to flag this individual's account to prevent him from affecting leaderboards, etc?

    Thanks.

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  • I would like to highlight once again that what Carlos Vigo mentioned in a very first page please, keep segments just the same for both activity types e-bike and regular ride but, separate leaderboards based on activity type. This way there would not be a need to create separate e-bike segments, it would encourage people to records activities as e-bike ride instead of regular ride because all segment features would be then available like live-segments, segment search/explorer and etc.
     
    I was disappointed when after many years of using Strava I bought first e-bike and noticed that, it lacks lot of features compared to regular rides. Many others has also noted that in our cycling groups. Paying a subscription has become a doubt...
     
    Carlo's post follows..
     
    Please consolidate regular bike and e-bike segments into a single segment datase but keep separated leaderboards depending on bike type. This would enable live segments for eBike riders, and remove the concerns about the lack of segments for eBikes, the unavailability of eBike segments search or not being included in the new route maker.

    It also enables riders to compare (but not compete) with people using different bikes, which I think is useful for DH segments.

    It also encourage eBikers not to record their activities as regular rides. How many of them do it just to get the same functionality as regular rides?

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  • As of this morning segment leaderboard breakdown data has disapeared from the mobile app (following/this year etc). It now only shows the top all time and your place within it. When this data was moved behind the paywall i subscribed as segements are the reason i use strava over other apps. Is this coming back ? its the only useful feature in the subscription.

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  • @Alan Levick - the problem with making a separate category for MTB is that most people don’t list what bike they use, much less the type of bike. Even if you could get most people to start doing that, it wouldn’t help the 10 years or more of data in the system that does not have that association. Unless you started leaderboard from scratch, your historical database would make the results unusable. I would be interested if you could come up with a way to reliable separate the two.

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  • @David Jones

    Yes, Strava makes no effort to guarantee that everyone travels the same distance. Those users who use higher resolution devices that write data every second tend to produce more consistent results with distances much closer to the actual segment distances. Those users who use lower resolution devices depend on luck - they may end up matching to 100-150 m different distances either way. But we tend to notice only those who got lucky and matched a shorter than actual distance.

    The solution is fairly straightforward - Strava needs to look at points on the track before and after the point that they match to a segment start and finish and interpolate finding a shortest possible distance. Then adjust the time proportionally. That would be much more accurate than whatever arbitrary point that match for segment start / finish. Also that would allow to filter out cases when someone starts a segment late or turns around 50-75 meters before finishing a segment - something that I've seen on uphill running segments many times. The current algorithm allows users to cheat - either intentionally or unintentionally.

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  • Can strava explore the option of archiving segments or filtering future segments to omit any entries prior to a certain date? The option would serve to assist in particular mountain bike trails that evolve or upgraded over time. An example locally (but there are half a dozen I can think of) is a significant trail that was once a very steep and straight up and down track being completley reworked with much longer trail with around 20 switchbacks. Times posted prior to the changes up and down were much quicker than current times (even though it is now easier) due to being far more direct. The ability to archive a previous segment prior to the changes and allowing a newly created segment to omit any result prior to the date of the trails modifications would produce a far more accurate set of results.

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  • @Matthew Lee

    This may be controversial, but I think there is no reason for walking segments to be separate from hiking and running segments. All of these are done on the same paths.

    I've seen some cases when times on steep uphill hiking segments are better than times on identical running segments. Having parallel sets of segments just adds to the mess. It may be a good idea to be able to filter segment leaderboards by sport, but segments themselves need to be shared.

    Regarding polluting walking segments, I suspect that most walkers who upload their activities are not even aware of segments because Strava doesn't surface walking segments in the same way it surfaces running and cycling segments. Banning users isn't a good solution, but Strava should have a reasonable way to auto-validate a segment effort instead of blindly accepting any segment matches.

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  • "Maybe a simple prompt that pops up when someone does get a KOM or PR to acknowledge they are in the right category (you'll probably need to be as specific as "were you riding an E-Bike?" though). If they acknowledge it still after that, then it just sits with the character of the person from there and I'm sure they're the same with other things outside of Strava. :)"

    Yes, perhaps with the hiking segments a prompt, "did you run ANY portion of this segment?" if the answer is yes, it's a trail run. If no, congrats, it's a hike. And if you did but you clicked no, you are probably a cheater in life anyway.

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  • I agree Murray R. Actually, I am recording as eBike but cancelled my summit subscription until Strava gives eBikes the same functionality than acoustic.

    BTW, I beg you all to vote for my request on that sense :-)

    https://support.strava.com/hc/es-es/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013091092

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  • Allow some way for users to vote to "unflag" a segment that has been incorrectly flagged as hazardous.  Right now, it just takes one person to flag a segment as hazardous and nobody has any recourse.  One malicious person can ruin segments for everyone else.  There are a few where I ride that were flagged as hazardous, yet there is nothing hazardous about them.  Most likely, it was a NIMBY who wasn't happy with the new trails being legally built in the area.  Unfortunately, nothing could be done except to create new duplicate segments.  

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  • Andy Saiden - There are multiple issues with that. Mainly, not that many people really have power meters on their bikes or have them on all of their bikes.  Requiring the use of a power meter would be requiring everyone to spend a lot of money on equipment.  Personally, I have power meters on two bikes, but I race and chase KOMs on 5 (TT, Road, Cross, Mountain, and Snow).  Also, I don't even know if any power meters integrate with the Strava phone apps or not.  If they don't, it would be limiting the segment feature to those who also have separate devices such as a Garmin or similar.  

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  • I agree with Tue Søeborg about downhill segments not being live anymore. I get the safety (and probably liability) aspect, but it's disappointing that I can no longer see where I stand live on segments that I could see live in the past. I like the waiver idea, and came here to say the same. We already to it for segments flagged as hazardous.

    Continuing on, it's extremely frustrating that Strava is weeding out all live segments that are <= -.25%. There are many long segments with rolling terrain that barely miss being "live" then. I rode one a couple days ago that was -.3%, but involved a ton of rolling hills over 1.2 miles. If Strava persists in eliminating live downhill segments, at least up the grade threshold, as the chosen grade is way too restrictive, IMO.

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  • Great point Peter and everyone on the deterioration of the fun of the leader board.  There is a cyclist in Atlanta, Demetrius P, that is slaughtering KOMs.  It is obviously a vehicle to anyone who bothers to look at the data.  The Atlanta community continues to flag the rides and they are unflagged almost immediately. It's completely obvious to all and Strava is not doing anything about it.  Most people would not do this type of thing in this community, via ebikes , scripts, or cars or whatever it is.  Agree with others that if you are flagged by 10+ riders on every ride you do, your profile should get examined stringently.   He can keep is data but take him off everyone's leaderboard. https://www.strava.com/athletes/61825269/segments/leader

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  • I have several segments I have created that i can’t find on a map when I explore segments. These are segments with lots of attempts, over 500 for some. They are not private segments so why don’t they show up on searches. I know lots of segments in my area don’t show up on explore segments. It is frustrating to find segments that I know are there but they don’t show up. 

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  • Who has the time to do all this flagging? The top 10 times for one segment I saw on a trip last year we're all over 50 mph, on a dead-flat road. Who is going in flag all of these? Moreover, this month there was 160 mile an hour KOM in the park nearby, which proves their newest filter is simply not working. We shouldn't have to flag something that should be automated.

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  • Hi Louis - I do respectfully disagree. There would be no way to monitor different runners' efforts in a segment to gauge whether one is running tempo pace (for him/her), regular training pace (and why would anyone be interested in that, anyway?) or an all-out effort. And isn't that the whole point of a segment - to see how fast someone can run/bike/ski a segment? In running, one local segment is 6.5 miles of mountainous dirt trail - no faking that. Even a 0.1 mile sprint is open to the best runners giving it 100% and topping the leaderboard over the type of runner you describe. I read an article about a national-caliber marathoner who worked out a 25 mile route to make KOM on over 20 segments - great! I'm 59 and can't match in a mile the pace I used to be able to sustain over a weekly 10 mile tempo. But it is fun to see if, going all-out, I can hit a leaderboard (FYI: my regular pace is typically between 8:00-10:00 minute pace depending on terrain and elevation gain). If the "spirit of Strava" is simply to measure who has the fastest training pace I don't think there would be much interest in segments. I view them as mini-races of various lengths and terrain in which we all engage in friendly competition to see how we measure up, in the same spirit as entering a road, ski, bike or track race. 

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  • exactly, interpolation is super easy. or, if you don't want to to that. Strava should take your trackpoints OUTSIDE the segment (so the segment is 'inside' your trackpoints), not trackpoints in between segment - making your effort shorter.

    if it makes your time longer? sorry, just use more accurate device.

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  • Louis, I completely disagree with your logic on segments. Personally since the lockdown, the lack of races has made it so that the only thing I can really compete in is strava segments. I started going all over my city and setting up runs (mainly fartleks) in which I would specifically try to take segments on my runs. I have had two separate runs where I claimed over 10 segments. It is not very easy to do I assure you. I am not running 11 minute pace and then suddenly 4 minute pace. It is usually 7 minute pace and then whatever pace I need to take he segment. It’s like a fun game, plus I have to learn the roads of where to turn and everything. Doing all this speed work really helped me and by the end of the summer I was able to run my first sub 5 minute mike in 24 years. I am now up to 142 segments and have a lot of fun finding segments in areas of town I haven’t run and trying to take them from the younger cross country kids. Taking this aspect of strava away would honestly completely ruin the main reason I use strava. 

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