Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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461 comments
  • TRUE AGE-GROUP KOMS

    I'm a geezer, over 55. Give us silver crowns!

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  • Hi Louis Spencer - some interesting ideas.  You seem to be saying that doing "intervals" during an activity (i.e. alternating hard and easy efforts) is against the spirit of Strava and shouldn't be allowed.  If I have understood you correctly then I would have to disagree - "intervals" is a valid and effective training method and I don't think it should be banned.  I see nothing wrong in someone doing an activity with 20 segments and focusing on 2 or 3 in order to try to set a PB.  The logical extension is that an activity would be flagged if the maximum effort exceeded the average effort by some small tolerance - I would strongly disagree with such an approach. 

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  • Looks good, a possible improvement might be too flag a "it looks like you forgot to turn off your GPS" when you got in your car. Really easy to spot visually, HR drops, speed increases multiple fold, cadence and other parameters disappear etc. The number of rides this happens on and they take out KOMs for miles on the drive home.

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  • https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360014611412 

    Great news JOJO !

    In the same order of idea, offering user the possibility to correct an error, may it be due to  user mistake...or Segment matching fault.
    Would you consider offering a way to "Abdicate" a KOM title  ?

    The problem is that while you make a long run, if  at some point you get an unintended KOM (due to shortcut on a loop) BUT you have other fair achievement you wish to be publicly known...you are in the middle of a pickle ! (Making it public and frustrate the former KOM holder, or keeping it private...and being frustated !)

    If the same kind of message were send to the user leaving the choice to "abdicate" or accept the KOM maybe more corrections would be done by users themselves.

    Some message like "Wow you beat the previous KOM by a astonishing 50% margin" or "You seem to hold the new world record on the distance" ..."Something may went wrong. Would you like to change it ?".

    This would also tackle the  "mix activity" (run and bike, or getting in a car for a short part of the run leaving statistics "likely" but uncorrect).

    Once again, this would be another small step toward "information to and correction by the user" which I believe would be appreciated by the Strava Community.

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  • In the iOS mobile app, if I go to a friend's activity and tap on a segment, I cannot see what their rank on the leaderboard is. If I drill down into one of the leaderboards (Eg, "All Time"), I see my own rank on the list. It would be great if I also see my friend's rank in the same list (For example, maybe I'm 100/1000, and my friend is 50/1000).

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  • Jaisah Webb - what is the point in wanting to compare your e-bike times with others not on e-bikes - it's not a relative comparison. I can only assume it is to make you happy that you bought an E-Bike because you can smash people without them?

    It's basically like comparing times of a Horse in a Donkey race.

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  • I think there is an easy solution and that is for Strava to ask for the type of bike at the end of the recording, especially if the time is leadership material. I held the leadership roll for a ride for a while because I was on a ski lift! Strava makes it really easy to mislabel a ride. I didn't even know until it was flagged. 

    That said, I am not even sure all these mislabeled ebike rides are nefarious. I have a suspicion that many of the people who have the leadership position due to an ebike never even look at the leadership board. They are just using the map and their own personal data. This controversy is Strava's fault, not the riders in probably 99% of the cases!

    The solution is so simple. If the user has not input their bike data, they should be asked to verify the type of bike (or if it was even a bike... in my case skis) at the end of the ride! Just a few extra buttons and then the rider would be forced to intentionally lie. This would solve 99% of the cases and the few actual liars could be easily shamed. As it is now, the 1% of ego maniacs' can hide under the 99% who just don't care about the leadership board like me.

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  • > But when you have one that's barely -1 or even -2% over several miles it just makes no sense.

    Now imagine that the same applies to running segments as well. Banning those from syncing to my Fenix watch has even less sense. But Strava still does that.

    But at the same time I have a segment that literally goes to a top of a mountain and then back to the start on a 20% downhill slope. And since that is a net 0% segment, apparently syncing that to a Garmin device is fine.

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  • Peter Cajthaml - I agree that those two ideas would remove an unwanted KOM, but it would also take away from what the rider actually did.  If it were me, I wouldn't want to crop out part of my workout that I actually did.  I rode the distance/time, put in the work associated.  Cropping out a section in the middle would mean I would lost the credit for doing that effort.  It would also break up a larger continuous activity.  When looking back at rides, it is better for me to see the ride as a whole rather than multiple broken up files that happen to almost connect (except for what was cropped out).  Sometimes a segment matching error happens in the middle of another larger segment as well, so I would be losing out on the larger segment(s) or other overlapping segments by making the edit for the one.  A better solution would be for Strava to allow for someone to manually disassociate a segment from their ride.  It could be a simple check box or button just like the "hide segment" button.  

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  • Here in the Philippines, people in motorcycles even use Strava and get those top spots on the leaderboard.  Is there a way to delete these profiles?  I hope Strava can detect those unusual speeds.

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  • I cant speak for running as I never use Strava for this but for rides;

    1) I think anything that shows a segment speed over 70kph / 43mph on a near-flat road should be auto-flagged.
    2) Anything flagged should have the ability to flag the specific segment of the ride.

    There are segments all over the places which are either clearly driven in cars or, the GPS data is bad and warps between 2 points.

    I ride track as a sprinter and at my performance peak I could only really hit 67kph max and that was on a super-smooth velodrome with a track-specifc bike... and I am generally one of the faster guys!

    This is an example: the top 30 riders all had speeds of over 80kph for the sprint segment.... to put into perspective, that is Chris Hoy's max speed recorded in an olympic Keirin race.

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  •  

    Please consider "snow biking" a separate leaderboard.

    In some highly technical trail systems that see a lot of winter use, a gnarly rocky/rooty trail system will fill into to become  a bobsled course with the perfect freeze thaw cycles once every 2 or 3 years. Is it FUN? OH YEAH,  but not it's just not the same trail.

    here is an example of a segment that has existed for about 4 years. suddenly on  late Feb to early March 2021 conditions were perfect and the leaderboard got destroyed. In the top 30 there is only 1 Non winter time.   the entire trail network is like this. Here and on many other technical trail systems that see winter traffic.

    The leader board then becomes a list of people who were out on those "special days" and becomes useless the other  363 days of the year as it was 20-25% faster on those perfect days discouraging the friendly competitive nature that make Strava so fun.

    Less technical "flow trails" would also benefit with a "snow biking" category.  in many of those cases dirt will have considerably more grip than snow so for the winter season,  strava loses its fun competitive nature on those  trail networks.

    It is also incredibly easy for locals to identify the "snow bikers" simply based on date and impossible to hide from it. So flagging would be very straightforward and non-offensive. Just switch the category...the ride isn't lost and there is still a leaderboard to compete on 365 days a year

    Maybe to clean up broken historical  leaderboards,  existing rides that are flagged as "snow biking" between Dec-Mar in the northern hemisphere would automatically be recategorized unless denied by the user.

    Overall I can see this as a very positive improvement to strava without major drawbacks or conflict. and should hopefully be able to  integrate easily into the existing system easily

     

     

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  • Tony Poole - How would Strava be able to know if a ride was part of a "group" ride where drafting potentially impacted the speeds?  So far, they have not been very successful when trying to identify when a person rode with another person.  I get listed on my activities as having run or ridden with so and so all the time when it is rarely accurate.  Many times, I never even see the person I supposedly rode with, I just happen to be following a similar route around the same time.  Heck, even in races when there others around, there is no way to identify if my effort was assisted by others.  In a time trial or a hill climb, I could be riding within 10-20 seconds of others, but never get any benefit of any draft, yet it would claim I was riding with others and would remove me from eligibility for segment leaderboards even though my effort was a solo, unassisted effort.  

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  • Jason Lamoreaux,Tony Poole
    Keep in mind that not everybody uses Strava. "Solo" would degenerated into "not in a group of Strava users".

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  • Strava prevents flagging some activities saying they've been "resolved".

    I don't know what resolution has occurred, but look at this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/26782084?filter=overall

    The KOM is a low wattage, and the user admits to entering a deceitful or erroneous weight to achieve it.

    So the KOM is admittedly wrong, the user has admitted it, and when contacting Strava support they just shrug you off and say it's user patrolled (which is prevented here as it's "resolved").

    Strava needs to maintain the integrity of KOM's or the platform will go the way of myspace, becoming irrelevant - either by enabling users to (more than current) or having an appeals process that results in more than a PFO go put a complaint on our community boards.

     

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  • We know how frustrating it is when you give a segment your best and think that the crown might be yours. But you head to the leaderboard only to find that the fastest activity seems off, due either to bad GPS data or incorrect activity type.

    We hear you, and we’re working to fix it. Here’s how we’re tackling the issue:

    Identifying incorrect activity type – If an athlete misclassifies their activity (i.e., ride for run, e-bike for bike, etc.), Strava will now suggest that they change the activity type to reduce the amount of miscategorized uploads you encounter on leaderboards.  
    Partial activity exclusion – Strava’s auto-detection tool used to exclude an entire activity if a single segment effort had bad GPS data. We’ve upgraded the tool to enable partial exclusion, so if one segment effort does have lousy data, the rest of the activity will stay intact and remain eligible to compete on other segment leaderboards.  
    Retroactive leaderboard cleanup – Our team is making the effort to check historical leaderboard data so that all efforts you see there are legitimate. But because GPS technology has evolved over the years, scrubbing older activity data warrants different solutions than more recent ones. This work is ongoing.

    We’re committed to fair competition, and to ensuring that segment leaderboards are accurate, reliable and fun. Thanks for your patience as we continue to work toward removing invalid efforts from Strava, and for continuing to help us in flagging the efforts you see that don’t look right. You can continue to do so from the web.

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  • I completely agree with Willem O! The woman I flagged last week initially just unflagged everything- so I left a comment in the most recent activity, asking her to reclassify and explaining why I’d flagged her rides. She replied “Ok, thanks!” and did as I’d asked. Obviously despite spending AGES writing comments on each one to justify the flag, as asked in the STRAVA form, this information was not passed on to her and she had NO IDEA what the flagging meant.

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  • Hi! We have a local (male) athlete who changed his gender on strava to 'be funny' and 'prove a point.' In doing so, he takes many female QOMs and makes a mockery of trans athletes. He is not trans, but is just doing this to ridicule trans athletes and to prove that he can. Is there a way to flag this individual's account to prevent him from affecting leaderboards, etc?

    Thanks.

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  • FOR RUNNING: 

    I get your average runner may not care that they're gunking up leaderboards with their miscategorized activities, but I spend entirely WAAAAY too much time cleaning up these things when simple baseline standards would clear all this up. THIS SEEMS ENTIRELY OVERDUE AND A BEYOND SIMPLE FIX

    Example: 

    Say I hold the top spot on a segment's leaderboard. Then JOHN NITTTWITTY posts an activity where he claims to have "Ran" at a world record competing 200m pace. Your robots should simply FLAG that activity. Right off. The whole thing. No question. Knowing they were on a bike. Knowing they don't quite know how to use Strava in all its Wowzer powers. If anything, think it a teaching opportunity about the merits of Strava and and its correct usage how some people actually do use the thing as intended.

    Now whom, as a company, Strava, do you care more about? The fairweathers who migth engage with the app once or twice a month OR your paid subscriber base? 

    Again, this seems pretty simple a fix. So let's do it. Otherwise, not really sure what I'm paying for. Sounds like I SHOULD BE PAID to help clear this thing of the weirdos who get their jollies off claiming CR's and hardware. 

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  • Gordon Clark

    Gold star post and good luck.

    Half this forum is people complaining of similar, with e bikes or motorcycles or cars.

    The AI seems that it should be simple enough to at least eliminate 95% of these and educate users instantly, but people have been harping on Strava for years with little effect on this.

    I've not yet seen a good explanation from Strava on why not, although reps do pop their heads up here to address topics from time to time.

    In this day and age it should be a basic feature and innovation they worked on 18 months ago, not one users still need to beg for now.  

    Time will tell.

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  • Many athletes are recording their training the wrong way, they train and forget to finish their training, instead they go home in their motor vehicles and only then finish their training. The problem is that in the middle of the way they end up taking several RPs (personal records), KOMs and QOMs.

    When I say a lot, I mean a lot.

    In a segment that I'm "cleaning" there are more than 40 incorrect records and you only release 10 flags a day, it's very little, I've been flagging these people for over 1 week and it never ends.

    I'm just suggesting that a tool be thought up that reminds these people to finish their training and don't drive home recording.

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  • UI/UX Suggestion:

    When browsing segment results for a very popular segment, anything on Zwift for example, there can be 10,000+ pages of results but the browse tabs at the bottom are numbered:

    1   2   3   5004   5005   5006   10000   10001   10002   -> (forward one page arrow)

    I don't see an obvious way to get to my result in the list but that's not my main point.

    If I want to see data for someone doing the route, say 5 minutes faster than me, I may have to click 5000 times to get through a 10,000 page result. Meanwhile I will have the option to go back to page 1, 2, 3, 10001, 10002, 10003 with a single click. How about replacing "2", "3", "10002", "10003" with "+10", "+100", etc.?

    Thanks!

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  • I read and see there are new comments suggesting to be able to communicate with the segment creator. This was #2 suggestion in this long thread and was for a long time the most upvoted suggestion, still top 3 I think. It would solve many issues cleaning up the map and be very easy to implement. Also, if segment creator is no longer active, the community must be able to downvote a outdated or badly created segment to an extent where it is deleted. This feature request have had ZERO feedback or answer from Strava. Why? A request with that many upvotes of course should at least be worth a comment from Strava.

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  • @Alan Levick - the problem with making a separate category for MTB is that most people don’t list what bike they use, much less the type of bike. Even if you could get most people to start doing that, it wouldn’t help the 10 years or more of data in the system that does not have that association. Unless you started leaderboard from scratch, your historical database would make the results unusable. I would be interested if you could come up with a way to reliable separate the two.

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  • Andy Sonneland

    I love the idea of a global leaderboard for each global discipline (skiing), with sub-discipline filter (nordic skiing).

    Same about cycling and road, gravel, cx, xc, enduro, emtb... sub-categories

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  • Totally agree with Andy S about having sub categories for classic versus skate skiing.

    Similarly road riding solo versus in a group with a draft.

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  • @David Jones

    Yes, Strava makes no effort to guarantee that everyone travels the same distance. Those users who use higher resolution devices that write data every second tend to produce more consistent results with distances much closer to the actual segment distances. Those users who use lower resolution devices depend on luck - they may end up matching to 100-150 m different distances either way. But we tend to notice only those who got lucky and matched a shorter than actual distance.

    The solution is fairly straightforward - Strava needs to look at points on the track before and after the point that they match to a segment start and finish and interpolate finding a shortest possible distance. Then adjust the time proportionally. That would be much more accurate than whatever arbitrary point that match for segment start / finish. Also that would allow to filter out cases when someone starts a segment late or turns around 50-75 meters before finishing a segment - something that I've seen on uphill running segments many times. The current algorithm allows users to cheat - either intentionally or unintentionally.

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  • Can strava explore the option of archiving segments or filtering future segments to omit any entries prior to a certain date? The option would serve to assist in particular mountain bike trails that evolve or upgraded over time. An example locally (but there are half a dozen I can think of) is a significant trail that was once a very steep and straight up and down track being completley reworked with much longer trail with around 20 switchbacks. Times posted prior to the changes up and down were much quicker than current times (even though it is now easier) due to being far more direct. The ability to archive a previous segment prior to the changes and allowing a newly created segment to omit any result prior to the date of the trails modifications would produce a far more accurate set of results.

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  • @Matthew Lee

    This may be controversial, but I think there is no reason for walking segments to be separate from hiking and running segments. All of these are done on the same paths.

    I've seen some cases when times on steep uphill hiking segments are better than times on identical running segments. Having parallel sets of segments just adds to the mess. It may be a good idea to be able to filter segment leaderboards by sport, but segments themselves need to be shared.

    Regarding polluting walking segments, I suspect that most walkers who upload their activities are not even aware of segments because Strava doesn't surface walking segments in the same way it surfaces running and cycling segments. Banning users isn't a good solution, but Strava should have a reasonable way to auto-validate a segment effort instead of blindly accepting any segment matches.

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  • It would be great if segment leaderboards could be viewed as histograms, x-axis time and y-axis number of rider that achieved this time. This would be a great way to visualize how fast people ride segments.

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