Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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321 comments
  • I do apologise for venting out my frustration, but yes I do agree with you Jason Lamoreaux power meters are note very common. If only there was an algorithm to weed out all the fake attempts, especially the ones speeding beyond the lawful limits of the road would have been one indicator for an auto flag. I managed to pair my power meter with Strava App once, because I forgot to charge my Garmin. Sadly the app crashed an hour into the ride, so I pretty much ended with no data for that ride. 

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  • Andy Saiden - I totally agree with you that they need to create or at least fix their algorithm for automatically detecting unrealistic achievements.  That would take care of a vast majority of the problems.  They say they have something, but it is clear it either isn't there or doesn't work at all like they claim it does.  They could even have multiple levels of "flags", the obvious ones that just delete the activity from the leaderboards if it is far above anything realistic and then a lower level that just requires the user to verify that it was legit if it was just somewhat above the expected.  

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  • Can I suggest that e-bikes are split into different categories depending on the level of assist they get i.e. Class 1, 2, or 3? There are many e-bikes classified as Class 3 speed pedelec bikes which receive e-assist is up to 28 mph, whereas the regular Class 1 e-bike assist is typically up to 25kph (15.5 mph). As a Class 1 e-bike rider I can't get close to e-bike segment KOM's because they are dominated by the Class 3 e-bike riders yet clearly the playing field is not level by virtue of the equipment employed. A recent example is a segment called Up Stunt, which is 6.39Km long, 405 vertical meters, 6.3% gradient. As a Class 1 rider I posted a PB of 19.23 mins at an average speed of 19.8kph making me 8th overall in the e-bike category, however the KOM is held by a Class 3 rider that posted  12.20 mins at an average speed of 31.1kph on a Stromer ST-2. Clearly no competition! Not all of the riders state the equipment they use, but is should be pretty easy for Strava to detect such huge gaps and question accordingly. Perhaps Strava should require all e-bike subscribers to disclose their equipment, so we have some resemblance of a slightly more level playing field?  Examples of Class 3 equipment include the Stromer ST2, Trek XM700+, Giant Road E-Pro, Trek Super Commuter to name a few. 

    I am a 'regular' cyclist as well, and often switch my equipment depending on how I feel and how much time I have available for a ride, but the fact is that e-bikes are here to stay and will no doubt continue to grow in popularity so having clear boundaries so as to maintain the integrity of Strava and its subscribers should be a core principle.

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  • ^ Totally agree that they should have an upper limit, whether it is world record pace or just an arbitrary speed, and flag anything that exceeds those limits. I was just looking at one of the cycling challenges where one of the leaders has claimed a ridiculous number of kms. Looking at his activities I see he is not only cycling at 50 kph for 4 hours, but he is “doing” seven activities in the same time frame ! One of them is walking  100 km in four hours ! Surely Strava can come up with an algorithm to not accept these ridiculous uploads ?

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  • David Lowther - from your description it looks like only that 'class 1' is an e-bike, there rest of it (more power, throttle, speed >25km/h) are mopeds and are vehicles (not a bike anymore)

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  • Can you exclude the time spent on the lifts on an alpine ski day from the segments list? It seems like it would be pretty easy to detect when on a lift since it is a constant speed with a fixed begin and end point and the end point is much higher than the begin point. The overall outline of the day is useful, but seeing how fast the lift is moving is completely useless. Many of the downhill segments are missing from the segment list as you can see from the two back to back "Needle Peak Rd Climb" which is probably a mountain bike route since I doubt that any alpine skier is going up the hill on their skis and there is no lift by that name at Heavenly. I do love seeing how many runs I do in a day and how many miles/km I have skied, but again, it would be great to remove the miles/km spent on the lifts from that total. Thanks!

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  • Great point Peter and everyone on the deterioration of the fun of the leader board.  There is a cyclist in Atlanta, Demetrius P, that is slaughtering KOMs.  It is obviously a vehicle to anyone who bothers to look at the data.  The Atlanta community continues to flag the rides and they are unflagged almost immediately. It's completely obvious to all and Strava is not doing anything about it.  Most people would not do this type of thing in this community, via ebikes , scripts, or cars or whatever it is.  Agree with others that if you are flagged by 10+ riders on every ride you do, your profile should get examined stringently.   He can keep is data but take him off everyone's leaderboard. https://www.strava.com/athletes/61825269/segments/leader

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  • I also would like Nordic Ski split into "Nordic Ski Skate" and "Nordic Ski Classic". Everyone's time with skate skiing is much faster than classic skiing. You can't compare the times. Often friends are putting in "skate" or "classic" in their description to help separate the two.

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  • Yes to Stephen! Totally agree. Very difficult to get on a Nordic leaderboard if you primarily classic ski. Please consider dividing the activity into: Nordic (Skate) and Nordic (Classic). Same segments. Easy!

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  • It seems to me that an easy solution from Strava would be to pose a question to people recording a ride who have not defined their bike: eBike/mountain bike/road bike/cross trainer/other and give each its own category and leadership board. Once you define your bikes, each bike you own would be in its appropriate class and all you would need to do is select the bike you are using for that particular ride. It doesn't seem like a hard thing to implement.

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  • It would be great to have a leaderboard that records data not just each month but for the entire year to see who are the athletes that do the most distance, elevation gain, and so on on the entire year. Thank you. 

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  • Totally agree Peter Cajthami........Some E Bikers in my 65to 70 age group smashing some segments but their overall average speed is no more than 12 mph 🤣🤣

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  • I have several segments I have created that i can’t find on a map when I explore segments. These are segments with lots of attempts, over 500 for some. They are not private segments so why don’t they show up on searches. I know lots of segments in my area don’t show up on explore segments. It is frustrating to find segments that I know are there but they don’t show up. 

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  • Segment leaderboard suggestions

    1. Would it be possible to have an all time top 10 leaderboard that showed the top 10 fastest performances (not the top 10 fastest athletes). I think this would be an interesting way to see consistent performance.
    2. An all time local legend top 10 would also be another possible enhancement.
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  • KJ Paul de Jong

     

    I agree - real simple.

     

    There will be some plonkers that will still intentionally choose the Acoustic category even when they're on an E-Bike just so they feel like they beat some people at something in their lives.....but being prompted before saving the ride would certainly help on the off-chance they got a conscience one day. :)

     
     
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  • I'm not a fan of the removal of so many Zwift segments from leaderboards. Who are Strava to decide which segments should and shouldn't be there? It should be community driven; wisdom of the crowd.

    As a subscriber I pay for the leaderboards feature and it's useful to see where I stack up against my friends.

    Now I see just 1 segment on some rides. Fat lot of use that is.

    By all means, chop out the duplicates and the ones with nonsensical names but please attempt to ensure close to 100% segment coverage of each route. Now there are gaps and even some reasonable climbs missing. 

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  • TRUE AGE-GROUP KOMS

    I'm a geezer, over 55. Give us silver crowns!

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  • Sorry if I'm being stupid but . . . the format of group leaderboards seems to have changed.

    It used to show total distance, longest single distance, average speed, and total vertical ascent, all of which I found interesting.

    It now seems to have changed to just show total ride time, total swim time, total run time etc, no mention of distance, speed, or ascent.

    Is this just a setting that I've selected by accident ? If yes, how do I reverse it ? I've looked but can't find it. If it's not something that I can re-configure, please can we have the old style back ?

    Thank you . . .

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  • TRUE AGE-GROUP KOMS @PatrickMorris agree. Whilst I can still chase KOMs, it would be nice to know if I am 55, or 65, or 75 It will show an achievement. Perhaps not showing a Gringott's Vault of Crowns, but a nice Rosette. 

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  • ^ If you are a paid subscriber, with full access to the leaderboards, then it only takes one extra click to see the segment leaderboards by age group, if you are #1 in your age group should n't that be enough ?

    And if people are not willing to pay to subscribe, why should they get everything they desire from a free website ?

     

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  • I want to add Nordic Ski (and all the other) activities into Leaderboard for Club Athletes. It will allow followers to make all activities count on the leaderboard. The reason that is important is because of Leaderboards shows total activity time only for Swim, Runs and Cycle. An example of when I needed that was during winter time where our followers spend more time on Nordic skiing than running/cycling as they normally do during summer time. And they are frustrated that their time spent on Nordic Ski is not counting as an activity on the Leaderboard.

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  • Regarding what others have said (Ian Barton, etc.) Strava really needs to increase the accuracy of segment matching. There are many many rides where people's devices are leaving 10s gaps between GPS points. The current algorithm seems to match the closest point within the segment as the timed distance.

    This can lead to people having advantages of well over 10s compared to people with 1s intervals.

    For example if someone has their GPS recording every 5s

    0,5,10,15 ... 90, 95, 100

    and there's a segment from 13s to 84s

    instead of getting a time of 71s they only match between the closest points within the segments, i.e. 15s to 80s, this gives them a much faster time of 65s recorded for the segment.

    An error of 6 seconds is pretty big and this is a fairly tame example, I've seen live cases where people are gaining more than double this advantage.

    This makes it incredibly frustrating to complete on these segments where people can have totally unfair advantages of over 10s simply because their GPS data is of poor quality.

    If you look flybys or comparisons you can see that Strava does interpret these poor GPS tracks quite well, correctly interpolating extra points so we see smooth movement rather than jumps between actual GPS points.

    Clearly Strava can work out more accurate times if it wants to. Now I understand this may be computationally expensive, in that case simply round the data the other way. Match the points just before and just after the segment.

    It is totally unfair that those with dodgy GPS units gain an advantage and those with accurate data are effectively penalised.

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  • William O., interpolation is not substantially computationally expensive. Strava doesn't need to do interpolation between all points. Basically, once they find start or finish the normal way (e.g. the closest point), let's call that point N, they only need to do interpolation between points (N-1, N) and (N, N+1). The best interpolated match will be on one of those two intervals. That is a negligible increase in computing cost and complexity. A decent developer could implement that change in one day.

    But there is another potential problem is that interpolation could introduce fractions of seconds - something that Strava may no be setup to deal with. Still they could probably work around that by rounding the interpolated time to the nearest number of seconds. 

    This problem is totally solvable. The question is whether Strava is willing to address it.

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  • How to move from page 1 to say page 20 on the leaderboard without having to go one page at a time?

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  • yep, i pointed that some time ago too.

    ppl using poor receivers - like phones, quite often have these advantage up to ~10 secs (coz they don't have more points, ot because recorded track was offseted by 50 meters in some direction).

     

    That's why i stopped paying for Strava... they ask for too much, offering buggy service ....

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  • Hi Louis Spencer - some interesting ideas.  You seem to be saying that doing "intervals" during an activity (i.e. alternating hard and easy efforts) is against the spirit of Strava and shouldn't be allowed.  If I have understood you correctly then I would have to disagree - "intervals" is a valid and effective training method and I don't think it should be banned.  I see nothing wrong in someone doing an activity with 20 segments and focusing on 2 or 3 in order to try to set a PB.  The logical extension is that an activity would be flagged if the maximum effort exceeded the average effort by some small tolerance - I would strongly disagree with such an approach. 

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  • Who has the time to do all this flagging? The top 10 times for one segment I saw on a trip last year we're all over 50 mph, on a dead-flat road. Who is going in flag all of these? Moreover, this month there was 160 mile an hour KOM in the park nearby, which proves their newest filter is simply not working. We shouldn't have to flag something that should be automated.

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  • Hi Louis - I do respectfully disagree. There would be no way to monitor different runners' efforts in a segment to gauge whether one is running tempo pace (for him/her), regular training pace (and why would anyone be interested in that, anyway?) or an all-out effort. And isn't that the whole point of a segment - to see how fast someone can run/bike/ski a segment? In running, one local segment is 6.5 miles of mountainous dirt trail - no faking that. Even a 0.1 mile sprint is open to the best runners giving it 100% and topping the leaderboard over the type of runner you describe. I read an article about a national-caliber marathoner who worked out a 25 mile route to make KOM on over 20 segments - great! I'm 59 and can't match in a mile the pace I used to be able to sustain over a weekly 10 mile tempo. But it is fun to see if, going all-out, I can hit a leaderboard (FYI: my regular pace is typically between 8:00-10:00 minute pace depending on terrain and elevation gain). If the "spirit of Strava" is simply to measure who has the fastest training pace I don't think there would be much interest in segments. I view them as mini-races of various lengths and terrain in which we all engage in friendly competition to see how we measure up, in the same spirit as entering a road, ski, bike or track race. 

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  • Louis Spencer - Count me as one who strongly disagrees with you idea.  Segments are really pretty simple.  They are designed to be able to measure someone's performance along a specific path between two given points.  The fastest person to complete that "segment" by a given method of travel (run, bike, ski, etc...), gets to be listed as the KOM.  Nothing matters outside of the limits of that segments as far as segments are concerned.  Whether someone completed that segment as part of a 1-mile interval or as part of a 30 mile continuous effort doesn't matter.  If you are concerned with trying to earn the KOM for a given segment, you are more than welcome to do it under the same conditions as others.  Your idea would be impossible to implement on any kind of fair basis. You would be giving someone or some group the ability to pick and choose what they felt was a reasonable effort over the rest of a workout to qualify what was allowed for a segment effort.  Do segments only count if someone was on a run that was a minimum of 10k?  Who gets to decide?  If you want to have KOMs that more accurately reflect the stronger runners over a longer distance/effort, make longer segments.  Personally, I really like bike segments that are 30-60 minutes in length because it adds additional challenges to the rider and they must maintain a solid effort throughout.  But, I also like shorter segments at times because it really tests the sprinting ability.  While I am one of the stronger riders in the area I ride, there are some sprint segments that I can't touch because I am just not fast enough on sprinting, but I can beat those who do have the KOMs for them on longer rides typically.  It doesn't mean I want to take away their ability to compete for the KOM on those shorter segments.  

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  • exactly, interpolation is super easy. or, if you don't want to to that. Strava should take your trackpoints OUTSIDE the segment (so the segment is 'inside' your trackpoints), not trackpoints in between segment - making your effort shorter.

    if it makes your time longer? sorry, just use more accurate device.

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