Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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324 comments
  • Louis, I completely disagree with your logic on segments. Personally since the lockdown, the lack of races has made it so that the only thing I can really compete in is strava segments. I started going all over my city and setting up runs (mainly fartleks) in which I would specifically try to take segments on my runs. I have had two separate runs where I claimed over 10 segments. It is not very easy to do I assure you. I am not running 11 minute pace and then suddenly 4 minute pace. It is usually 7 minute pace and then whatever pace I need to take he segment. It’s like a fun game, plus I have to learn the roads of where to turn and everything. Doing all this speed work really helped me and by the end of the summer I was able to run my first sub 5 minute mike in 24 years. I am now up to 142 segments and have a lot of fun finding segments in areas of town I haven’t run and trying to take them from the younger cross country kids. Taking this aspect of strava away would honestly completely ruin the main reason I use strava. 

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  • Any chance of local moderators?

    •  I want new moderators. It will allow me to report rides to someone who is actively engaged in the local community nad they can easily see when for example a MTB forgets to turn off their GPS getting in the car etc. The reason that is important is because it is disheartening to see hte top 10 spots in local segments all taken up by people who clearly have had it reported already, didn't do anything, it doesn't seem intentional but it would be a huge drain on your resources if we started going through the full "report a cheater" process. A
    • I think a local volunteer moderator would be great because then they could action items simply by editing with ease, no cheaters report process and its something the community could be vested in.  
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  • E-Bikes ARE the biggest threat for leaderboards. I agree. Leaderboards are one of the main features of strava, they are fun, functional, motivating, and allow for competition (even more in times of the pandemic, when no races take place). E-bike rides are all over leaderboards and take all the fun out of it. Users should receive clear instructions on how to set a ride to the proper activity; making sure to click on e-bike if that is your activity type. This needs to be made very clear somehow, otherwise it will make the whole concept of leaderboards and strava somewhat obsolete.

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  • As part of our continued commitment to improving segment leaderboard quality, we're excited to share that we've rolled out an additional advancement to our suite of invalid effort detection tools. This tool attempts to detect whether you accidentally uploaded an activity (ebike as ride OR ride as run) as the wrong sport type and places a simple and easy-to-use awareness banner on your activity page. With a few clicks, you can adjust the activity to the correct sport type. We look forward to continuing to improve on this tool and invest in ways to clean up historical bad data.
     
     

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  • ^ Let's hope it works ! At least we now know you are trying to do something about this problem.

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  • Awesome Jojo - that's a great start!

    If people ignore from there, then they're clearly cheaters (or plain idiots), but hopefully the prompt will at least get them thinking about it.

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  • Looks good, a possible improvement might be too flag a "it looks like you forgot to turn off your GPS" when you got in your car. Really easy to spot visually, HR drops, speed increases multiple fold, cadence and other parameters disappear etc. The number of rides this happens on and they take out KOMs for miles on the drive home.

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  • Strava needs to create a virtual leaderboard for all virtual or indoor activities, and keep the regular leaderboard for efforts that are undertaken outside> As others have proposed, I too will not be renewing if things stay the way they are, and we have been calling for this for a while now. 

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  • I think it would be a good idea to have private leaderboards where the admin can invite certain users to compete in the private segment. This would be handy for creating segments which you do not want the entirety of Strava to see or to limit the amount of people in the leader board. 

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  • If a track has changed slightly, how do we manage the leaderboard? Should the leaderboard be restarted? I.e. if there is a mountain biking trail that has been around for 5 years and the track is quite different in 2021 compared to 2016 then how can we compare lap times accurately? If the track has significantly changed i.e. more corners, jumps, burms etc added then can we trigger a reset for the leaderboard? If I was to create a new segment, Strava would just retrospectively match all previous rides to this new segment, even if it doesnt perfectly match the exact path. Strava: "Same start point and end point? Must be the same trail."

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  • Jaisah Webb

    We can't remove, retire, or globally deactivate these segments even if the trails have changed because those past efforts are still valid as that was a real route at that point in time.

    What I would suggest is to hide any segments that are no longer current and then use the tips in this article to see if you can create a new segment to account for the trail changes. You'll want to check out the sections on parallel trails and switchbacks as those tips are probably most relevant to this scenario: https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/21074038-Optimizing-Segment-Creation-how-to-create-good-segments


    As you'll see in the article above, it's very possible your new efforts may still get matched to old segments—this is a limitation of our matching system. If you hide those old segments and do your best to create new/high quality segments with the tips above, it will be less noticeable. 

    Here's information on how to hide a segment: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918177 

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  • Jojo
    Thank you for a good answer to Jaisah's question.
    I have the same problem, and I think there are some possible remedies Strava could implement.

    In my case, there's a segment that used to go straight downhill, and now the clearly marked route is a series of switchbacks. Following advice here, I created a new segment, hoping that future matches would be better.

    However, that isn't working. New riders who cut the switchbacks still match, and old rides were matched to the new segment. Not only is it impossible to compete with the old matches, but this situation also encourages current riders to harm our trails by cutting the turns.

    See this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/20484448
    and the KOM from 2012 is clearly very different.

    It seems to me that 1) you could NOT match rides predating the segment, perhaps as an option when creating the segment, 2) possibly improve the matching algorithm (I realize that would also cause complaints), or 3) tighten the matching on segments that are marked or flagged as problematic.

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  • https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360014611412 

    Great news JOJO !

    In the same order of idea, offering user the possibility to correct an error, may it be due to  user mistake...or Segment matching fault.
    Would you consider offering a way to "Abdicate" a KOM title  ?

    The problem is that while you make a long run, if  at some point you get an unintended KOM (due to shortcut on a loop) BUT you have other fair achievement you wish to be publicly known...you are in the middle of a pickle ! (Making it public and frustrate the former KOM holder, or keeping it private...and being frustated !)

    If the same kind of message were send to the user leaving the choice to "abdicate" or accept the KOM maybe more corrections would be done by users themselves.

    Some message like "Wow you beat the previous KOM by a astonishing 50% margin" or "You seem to hold the new world record on the distance" ..."Something may went wrong. Would you like to change it ?".

    This would also tackle the  "mix activity" (run and bike, or getting in a car for a short part of the run leaving statistics "likely" but uncorrect).

    Once again, this would be another small step toward "information to and correction by the user" which I believe would be appreciated by the Strava Community.

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  • In the iOS mobile app, if I go to a friend's activity and tap on a segment, I cannot see what their rank on the leaderboard is. If I drill down into one of the leaderboards (Eg, "All Time"), I see my own rank on the list. It would be great if I also see my friend's rank in the same list (For example, maybe I'm 100/1000, and my friend is 50/1000).

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  • Yes! Francois' idea to be able to "abdicate" a KOM would be a great addition. I have a KOM on a Nordic ski segment as a result of my GPS drifting and making a straight-line short-cut on the segment. I researched how to delete a segment but to no avail. I'm reluctant to delete the entire activity as I made a leaderboard on another segment the same session. But I would happily abdicate my unearned KOM for the segment in question. 

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  • And similar to Dan's request, above, it would be great to be able to see the age of another user and also look at other Age Group Leaderboards than my own. 

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  • I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this but here goes; Can we please merge the Segments for biking and E-biking? I'm not suggesting merging the leaderboards because obviously that wouldnt be fair, what I mean is that the segments are still the same. I have a regular pedal bike and an E-bike and it's a pain in the butt having to create new segments for all of the existing segments that have already been created on the biking part of Strava. I would like to be able to compare my efforts between the two sports and against my friends regardless of whether I am on an E-bike or bike. Surely it wouldnt be hard to just copy-paste or merge the two databases of segments? Again, I'm not saying we should merge the leaderboards, but the two sports shouldn't be so separated. On the descents there isnt much difference between a bike or E-bike and it would be cool to see the two leaderboards side by side. It feels like segregation between those who ride bikes and those who ride E-bikes. 

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  • I agree with Jaisah Webb

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  • Hi Jaisah Webb please look here https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013091092 

    Hope you can leave a positive vote :-) 

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  • ^ How could they merge the segments and databases without merging the leaderboards ? Possibly they could if the databases had been future proofed many years ago with activity ID tags but it seems pretty obvious from many other problems that they did not ....of course, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing for us to have now ! How many e-bikes were around when strava started their segments, and database in 2009?

    keep e bikes separate, where they belong. (IMHO :-) )

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  • As a comment to Jojos answer on "restarted leaderboards". A simple way to solve it is if Strava doesn't match earlier rides to a newly created segment. In other words, to end up in the leaderboard, you have to ride the segment AFTER it was created. That would solve many problems with slightly changed courses where "we" want a new leaderboard without old efforts popping up. (Doesn't solve new rides popping up in OLD leaderboards on almost identical segment but that I think is a smaller problem, main focus should be to keep the leaderboards up to date, if that messes up a leaderboard that is 5 years old that shouldn't matter as much)

    Also while on the line, what's the progress on the by far most upvoted request, to be able to communicate with the segment creator? Duplicates, segment inflation and incorrect segments are killing Strava, give the community (we who use Strava) a chance to clean up the mess.

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  • Zwift offers the rubber band feature, which helps friends to stay together during a meetup even though they are performing differently. Example: Person A needs 30 min for a certain segment and person B needs 1h for the same. In a meetup with rubber band activated, both need 45 min for the segment. Person B would never make it to 45 min from their own performance. So the segment effort is unrealistic and should not appear within the leader board. This way the whole Segment thing is absurd for virtual segments.
    I don't say there should be no virtual segments as segments are fun in virtual worlds as well, but as it currently is, it's not half the fun, as it's not reliable.

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  • Jojo Jaisah Webb I raised this very issue back in November and still think within your database constraints it would be possible to archive segments and set start dates for mountain bike trails that have evolved over time.

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013367231

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  • Is it possible to increase the GPS drift tolerance for water sport segments. I'm trying to create some segments along a river that averages 30m in width. Multiple efforts along the same river will not yield a segment match because each route is not close enough to the original. Could strava increase the tolerance for watersports to remedy this?

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  • Peter Cajthaml

    15 oct 2020

    je suis plus ou moins d'accord :

    Oui il ne faut pas que le VTTAE soit sur le même classement KOM/QOM que le VTT classique mais aujourd'hui Strava ne donne pas les mêmes possibilités en VTTAE et VTT

    les segments ne sont pas les mêmes du coup il faut créer 2 segments pour le même endroit avec le même nom , pas de local légend en VTTAE ; pas de classement sur la même sortie avec des musculaires même avec un signe distinctif, pas ouvert aux challenges Strava etc 

    dans les descentes un VTTAE et un VTT sont a armes égales (voir désavantage pour le VTTAE par son poids et empattement )

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  • Please don’t segregate Ebikes from regular bikes. I understand that the leaderboards need to be separate but the segments themselves should be the same. I’ve been biking for years and making segments or using existing segments in Strava but now I have an ebike and all of the segments I have created and the wealth of other existing segments are gone. The ebike side of Strava is incredibly bare. Almost every time I go for a ride I have to create new segments. This is ridiculous. Ebikes are not an all new sport they are just a variation of bikes and should have the same segments. I think it would also be useful for the leaderboards to be somewhat integrated such as having “All Time”, “All Time Ebike” so you can compare times side by side. I can’t even see my friends times to compare with my own. This needs to be fixed ASAP. It’s really destroying my interest in Strava if I can’t compare with my friends or even compare with my own times on a regular bike (I still own both) on a segment.

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  • Jaisah Webb - what is the point in wanting to compare your e-bike times with others not on e-bikes - it's not a relative comparison. I can only assume it is to make you happy that you bought an E-Bike because you can smash people without them?

    It's basically like comparing times of a Horse in a Donkey race.

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  • This is the first time I've commented on this topic and frankly I don't have the answers, but looking at the leaderboards on a couple of my favourite climbs its abundantly clear that efforts are being recorded as regular rides when they are in fact E-Bike rides. There's one particular local climb where the efforts on the leaderboard suggest that the top 20 riders would have had enough power to beat Mathieu VdP on the final climb of the 2021 Strade Bianche! ... and having looked through some of the data and associated photos its pretty clear that the majority were "motorised". In this case the road climbs up to a wood where there are some MTB trails and the majority appear to be E-MTBs ... and I get that they start recording their ride and are focusing more on the trails to come rather than the roads used to access them (and don't want to stop and start recording). But if you are on an E-MTB ... you should record an E-MTB ride. I feel sorry for the guy in 19th place on the all-time leaderboard who put out 460W and 176bpm to average 18kph up the ramp ... he is quite clearly the KoM on a regular bike! It seems a shame but essentially I ignore anything lacking HR and actual power data, and also suspiciously fast times where there is power data but no HR data (as this appears to be a symptom of an e-bike ride ... why have a power meter but no HR strap!). I just don't think that the "cultural" approach works ... maybe the way forward is a verified leaderboard where efforts must include power / HR data and there is some form of delta calculation occurring versus other efforts on the segment to flag spurious or incorrectly labelled attempts? In the example I mention above you can clearly see where the E-bike efforts end and the regular bike ones begin ... there's a huge sudden drop in average speed between 2 efforts. Not everyone can afford a power meter ... that's fair to say, but as Strava estimates FTP is there a way to combine this information with the data for the segment (distance / gradient) and again build in some delta screening versus other times? As I said at the beginning, I don't have the answers ... and its not like we are going to end up going down the Zwift Racing verification route (that's a pain) ... there will always be those who desire the KOM crown without the effort, but there are also people out there who don't want to tell the virtual world they are on an e-bike (I know a few) and some who just fail to record the right activity ... as for me, I rarely trouble the top ten on any of my local segments (I think I have a 2nd and a 6th place and that's it) so its not sour grapes, just a belief in doing right by those who truly deserve the crowns on offer.

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  • As trails change, can we get the KOM / Leader board reset? Over the past 10 years, we have added shape to a trail in our local park. More turns = more fun. But this year, Covid / Land Managers have prevented us from doing trail work and the result is not pretty. Riders are straight lining the trail and not using the perfectly shaped turns. The result is beginners are seeing the line and trying to take it, resulting in slow speed crashes. Problem is that the KOM is like 46 seconds and it's not achievable, but the Youth today is determined along with some of the elders. The fast times are 59 seconds and I like to do it in 1:20. I have video proof of the trail before and after if that helps. Trail name "Cactus DH" Saitiago Oaks, Orange, CA.

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  • I'd disagree about the requiring HR etc. Matt. It's just stopping some people taking part. My own HR strap is busted and by the looks of it, I won't be able to get one for months with current demand and Covid slowdowns on production but I got a few KOMs only recently. Ebikes and motors are easy to spot, local moderators would work well or autoflags, for rides that pop out to prescreening.

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