Tandem category

Is it not time for a tandem category so that QOMs are not continually lost to single female riders on mostly the flat sections? This is an injustice really and all one can do to solve it is by flagging/blocking a segment. It's time that mixed tandems played fair by comparing apples with apples.

15

Comentarios

36 comentarios
  • Comentario oficial

    We have some guidelines that include mixed-gender tandem teams and segment leaderboards posted. Let me know what you think of our recommendations. 

    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • DITTO - same thing happened in my riding area - Lame and unfair.

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • NWTR - a Tandem rally with a ton of mixed riders of over 300 attendees, just set segment records all thru the area.....  Just set up a Tandem activity.  

    in most cases, doesn't effect the men, just the women.  Even two strong women on a tandem, is faster than one woman on a flat course.

    Thank you!  

     

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi Elle - Thanks for your efforts in putting forth the guidelines regarding tandems.  Although flagging your own ride after a mixed tandem ride is perhaps the best option of the 3, it really shows that there needs to be a tandem category.  I'm hoping that Strava will step up and create this for the tandem community.  I very recently purchased a tandem which will be a mixed tandem team, and I, for one, will absolutely abide by the "flag every tandem ride" policy.  I too have been on the other side where many a QOM has fallen due to a mixed tandem team, and frankly, it's just not fair.  Your new suggested policy as of July 2016 does not address the scores of past rides that have QOMs from mixed tandem rides and I honestly don't think that many of the riders will even be aware of this policy.  While it's true that virtually all of are doing this for fun, for the leaderboards to have any kind of validity, this needs to be addressed.  

    -1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Most riders don't know about this and quite honestly could not be bothered with guidelines nor recommendations.

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi I agree with what the other ladies have posted here. All too often the ladies on mixed tandems deny the ladies on single bikes in the same gorup ride the QOM. I also feel that mixed tandems or ladies on tandems should be able to celebrate their acheivements with their partners and have their own leaderboards.

    How do we go about encouraging a Tandem activity (whereby you can link with your tandem partner and be put on a separate leaderboard) to be added to the Strava app? Or is this in the pipeline for development?

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • it's ridiculous how riders won't just self admit they are on tandem. It shows poor ethics and riders who do this over and over should be chastised by STRAVA not to do it! (or encouraged by STRAVA not to do it in a personal note)

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • I agree with the questions and comments posed here about the difficulty in educating others on our segment leaderboard guidelines around mixed-gender tandem activities. 

    Here's what we have posted in our article about guidelines:

     

    What should I do if I find activities that should not be on leaderboards?

    By providing the Flag feature, Strava allows the community to moderate the accuracy of a Segment Leaderboard.  The Flag tool is available to users to identify bad GPS data or data from non-human-powered and non-conventional bicycles.

     

    Does that help clarify? 

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi Elle -

    When I flag my ride, as suggested here, there is a "bug" that causes any leaderboard standing from a PRIOR ride (on my single bike) to fall off the leaderboard.  I can then manually go into each of the segments and do this refresh process to put myself back on the leaderboard, but I have to do this manually for EVERY SINGLE segment - ain't nobody got time for that!  This is a known issue in Strava, so you or your coworkers should be familiar with it.  I was not, but now that I am, it really makes it difficult for people who understand the guidelines to do the right thing, because of this quirk.   BTW, I also tried just making my tandem ride private, and the same bug occurred where it dropped me from the leaderboards for all of the segments that are on that ride - again accomplishments from previous rides that were not flagged or private. Elle - can you share if there is any plan to create a tandem category?   

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi Marlene, I'm not aware of that bug. I'm creating a follow up ticket to investigate. 

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • It is really unbelievable that Strava won't simply create a tandem bike category.  Why are you fighting this?????   I know you have guidelines for tandem riders, but they are obviously not being used.  Why not just add the activity??? I mean, you HAVE activities for cross-fit, e-bike, rock climbing, etc.  Tandem riding seems much more in-line with the STRAVA community than any of those. To be fair it should be three categories. Tandem (male/male), Tandem (male/female), Tandem (female/female). Please ADD!

    5
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Within our local shop ride we have a controversy relative to QOM's being taken by a mixed tandem team and whether or not they are legitimate under the Strava guidelines. So this question is for Elle. Are QOM's taken on a mixed tandem legitimate? Or should they be Flagged? 

    Note: I "ain't got no dog in this fight" other than to settle a disagreement between friends. 

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • To expand on my post above. The problem is that the leaderboard guidelines are not specific enough and leave room for interpretation. The mixed tandem team in our group records their rides individually for both riders. (One ride posted twice, once for him and once for her.) I believe that they think that by doing so they are adhearing to the leaderboard guidelines for keeping male and female achievements separate. As for myself I don't care. So if that's legit ok, but it has created a problem in our group and apparently It has for others as well. 

    Please either create a set of tandem categories as suggested above. Or at the very least provide precise clarification.  

    This issue has obviously remaind unresolved for to long. Pleas just fix it!

     

     

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • What about creating a way to flag a bike type as a tandem, under gear tracking?

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Just curious, @John Solheim, to hear the rationale of the friend that thinks a tandem effort is okay mark as a normal bike ride? How can anyone think it fair to compare the efforts of a pair against singleton riders?

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi - I just want to mention that my wife has the exact same problem that Marlene Pearce posted on 10/11/2016.  Marlene posted excellent detail, so I don't need to.  But basically, it resulted in a lot of confusion for us trying to figure out what was happening in my wife's account.  Since Marlene made the post, there is a new option "Hide from leaderboards," but sadly, this has the same result.... otherwise my wife would do that to solve the mixed gender tandem issue.

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Brian and Marlene and other tandem riders, you might try adjusting your account settings so that by default new activities are not included on leaderboards (the new feature added recently). When you then undo that option for a specific non-tandem ride, I suspect it will populate leaderboards properly.  This is more of a hassle than having the bug fixed, of course, but it's the kind of thing that shouldn't be too arduous, especially since there's no penalty for forgetting to un-hide a specific non-tandem ride, except that you don't show up on the leaderboard until you remember.

    BTW#1, when writing a forum post like this, how does one make a name into a link, as you did Brian with Marlen's name?

    BTW#2, I'd think that both riders of a tandem bike should recuse themselves from normal leaderboards, and not just the females. It seems unfair for one person to get credit for a two-person effort, or for a two-person effort to eclipse one-person efforts in the leaderboard. All the more reason for Strava to have tandem categories, so that apples can be compared with apples, and oranges are not simply thrown out.

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Elle. 

    Why won't Strava make three tandem categories (male/male, male/female, female/female)?  That solves the problem with no interpretation issues!  It seems so simple.

     

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • My main reason for being on the leader boards is to compare my PRs over time. I know if I set my PR on my tandem, mountain bike or road bike.  if I drop my tandem rides off the leader boards, it will also drop my PR records for those rides. Not having access to my tandem PRs would be a reason for me to stop spending money on Strava.  

    The KOM & QOM are inaccurate due to drafting, tail winds, $15,000 bikes and so on. Will you be asking riders that have drafted or done well on a segment with tail winds to flag their rides?  The number of people following their PRs vastly outnumbers thus few that win KOMs or QOMs so flagging rides is a very lame way to deal with the tandem issue.

    Why not just add a categories for TKOM & TQOM?  That would make Strava better rather than limiting features of Strava for tandem riders.  

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • The difference between folks getting a KOM with a good wind and folks getting one on a tandem bicycle is that one is following the rules of the service issuing the KOM, and the other isn't.

    If Strava doesn't allow tandems and scooters and horses and whatever on the bicycle leaderboards, folks like you might choose to stop using the service, which is fair: you're voting with your money. I suspect the reason they don't do this is because if they did, a much larger group of folks (e.g. most everyone else) would vote with _their_ money.

    For what it's worth, you'll still get your personal PRs and associated badges even if you exclude a ride from leaderboards or make it private.

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Tandems are bicycles.

    Like JF, I was urging Strava to have tandem categories, so that apples can be compared with apples, and oranges are not simply thrown out. 

    Make Strava better rather than limiting features of Strava for tandem riders and horses that can ride bicycles and Scooter on the Muppet Show too.   

     

     

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hey there Jeffrey Friedl.  I can answer your earlier question first - I believe the only way to create a link to a link to a person is from the mobile app by putting the @ symbol before their name.  At least that is how comments on activities works.  So your last paragraph is incorrect - there is a very negative consequence to flagging a ride or making it private OR clicking the little box that says "hide from leaderboards".  Typically your prior achievements for each of those segments will no longer appear on leaderboards and that pretty much sucks.  Please see my post from October 11, 2016.  Elle did some research and Strava has confirmed this is a known issue.  There is no good solution at this time. 

    I am in complete agreement with you that the efforts of two riders on one bike should be treated as such.  Which is why I request separate leaderboards in a comment to Strava each time I flag a tandem ride - which I now only do if there is a QOM because of abovementioned issue. 

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Thanks for the info about @names being app-only, Marlene. I don't use the app much, so hadn't thought of that.

    About the "hide from leaderboards" bug, an important point of my original comment is that one must have "hide from leaderboards" turned on in your settings, as the default for new uploads. If you do that, leaderboards won't be touched at all. This is a way around the "prior achievements will no longer appear" bug.

    To be clear, it is NOT sufficient to merely turn on "hide from leaderboards" for the activity as you're uploading it. It must be your account's default setting to get around this bug.

    Here's a bit more info why, in case you're curious.....

    Strava's activity-upload process doesn't quite work the way it appears. It APPEARS to be:

        1) start the upload process

         2) get an intermediary "new activity" page, where you can set the activity type, the title for the activity, etc.. On this page you can also set or clear the "Private" and "Hide from Leaderboards" options for the specific activity.

        3) After entering the title, etc., you then press the "Save & View" button to actually create the activity.

    Again, the description above is how it SEEMS, but it's not what actually happens.  The difference is that in reality, the activity is created in step 2 the moment the "Matching Segments..." process has completed (a few seconds after the upload finishes). This might seem like a minor difference, but it can have huge privacy ramifications, because even if you immediately click "Private" on the new-activity page, the ACTIVITY HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED AND IS ALREADY VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, and it won't become private until you get around to pressing the "Save & View" button.

    Imagine if you'd been called away from the computer in the mean time. Normal people would think that since they haven't finished the upload (haven't clicked the "Save & View" button), the activity hasn't even been created yet, so they wouldn't worry about a delay in getting around to "Save & View", but in reality the activity is already publicly visible, with the default "Morning Ride" (or whatever) title. It'll stay visible until you get back to the computer and finish the upload by pressing "Save & View".

    This disconnect between reality and what normal people would reasonably expect is a huge privacy issue, I think.

    If your account settings have new uploads default to private, then the activity is truly private when it's created. The same goes for the "hide from leaderboards" option.

    Anyway, about the "prior achievements will no longer appear" bug, as an engineer, I can imagine that the bug manifests itself during a change of state, when a public activity is made private (or when "hide from leaderboards" is turned on for a public activity). It's the actual process of removing efforts from the leaderboard that creates the bug... it removes efforts, but doesn't look through your prior activities to see whether a previous public effort should appear on the leaderboards.

    Now, combine the understanding about this bug with what I described above about activities being created right away, and you'll realize why you encounter the "prior achievements will no longer appear" bug even when you manually turn on "hide from leaderboards" before saving the activity. Because your Strava account settings don't hide new activities from leaderboards, there's that window between upload and "Save & View" where the activity is public and on leaderboards, and it's when you "Save & View" that the efforts are then removed from leaderboards and the bug is tickled.

    So, turn on "hide from leaderboards" for your Strava account, and manually turn it off for non-tandem activities. This will avoid both the bug and the wrath of non-tandem users.  Did anyone actually read this far? :-)

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Did any one actually read this far?

    This is one of the problems.  I have been using Strava for 5 years before I even heard there was any special tandem rule. Most of us users are not geeking out enough to dig deep enough into Strava to know how to use all of the function on Strava. 

    Frankly for me it is not worth the time and effort for what I want out of Strava. I just want to post my ride and look at it. I do not want to be forced  to use Strava in a special way because one of the bicycles I use happens to be a tandem. It needs to be intuitive. For example a box that I check that when I am using my tandem that puts me in a tandem category on the leader boards.

    I do not ride faster on my regular road bike than a fast female cyclist so any QOM my stoker happens to get on her Strava from her Garmin while we are on the tandem are because no high level female riders have yet challenged that segment.

    The small minority of people that the rule would keep off the QOM are super fast female riders on tandems with  super fast male riders.  

    If Strava thinks it is a big enough problem, they should make a separate tandem category.

      

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • The guidelines say the following:

    • Keep rides with a mixed gender tandem bike off the leaderboards

    Why doesn't it say the following:

    • Keep rides with tandem bikes off the leaderboards?

    I don't see how any combo of male or females is fair to compare vs solo riders.  

    Obviously just having the tandem catagories solves the problem.  Why not?  

    Thanks,

    Rick

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi Elle - This is kind of an old topic, but I would like to revisit it.  Recently, you have removed the "Hide from Leaderboard" button which my wife has been using to hide our tandem rides according to the rules.  Also, there were some issues with the functionality of that feature where here non-tandem rides would disappear from the leaderboards. 

    Anyway, Strava has evolved, and I now see that you have an "E-bike ride" and "Velomobile" category.  I would like to propose that you simply add a "Mixed Gender Tandem" category that functions exactly like the Velomobile feature.  This will allow my wife to upload her tandem rides, Not have to go through contortions in manipulating privacy settings, not mess up her other activities on the leaderboard, and clearly state that this is a tandem ride to other viewers.

    I believe that this is the best solution for mixed gender tandems, and seems to be in-line with the direction that Strava has taken.  Thanks!

    2
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Thanks for your thoughtful response, Brian. 

    I'll pass this on! 

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • I would like to second Brian Lucido's suggestion above.  I ride both single MTB and a mixed gender tandem MTB and would like to not have all my achievements on my single get swamped out by my tandem rides.  Where we live (super technical trails) our tandem MTB rides won't be knocking anyone else off the leaderboards, but they do knock off my own PRs that I did on my single.

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Hi Jeff and Elle - I just wanted to bump this suggestion (se my post above about making a "Mixed Gender Tandem" category to appease the many tandem riders.  Today, we posted my wife's ride as a "Velomobile" ride, which takes care of it just like calling it a "workout"... but it would be so cool if she could just put it into the proper category.  Thanks again for considering this request!!

    0
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink
  • Having got a tandem today I would love it if there was a tandem category. We ride a mixed tandem and I don’t want to smash all my PRs by tracking the tandem rides (even if I don’t put them on leaderboards).

    I would still like to see the times we do for segments so a tandem category with its own leaderboards makes complete sense.

    Bit of a shame people have been asking for this for years and Strava still haven’t added it

    1
    Acciones de comentarios Permalink

Iniciar sesión para dejar un comentario.

¿No encontró lo que buscaba?

Nueva publicación Agent Only: Button marked