Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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478 comentarios
  • @Cesar Corral - I agree with you. This forum should show newest posts first as a default view.

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  • Jennilyn T. thanks for raising this concern. At Strava this kind of behavior is not condoned, and it is very important to us. I've created a support ticket for you, you'll hear more from us on this matter shortly.

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  • I do see Stava starts making it automatically exclude those "impossible efforts" but, in such a country with lots of motorcycles, and still limit the quota for us to flag activities manually...

    just tired...🤡

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  • Greg Scott - Segments have to be created by the users.  If you don't see segments you would like to see, then just create them.  The reason you see so few e-bike segments is that e-bikers have not made many segments.  It is really easy to do and only takes a minute or two for each one once you have the routine down.  Personally, I would be excited to start from scratch and create new segments rather than adopt the ones already in place for another activity type.  There are so many poorly made or duplicate "ride" segments that it drives me nuts.  If I were an e-biker, I would be love to start fresh and create the segments correctly, with the correct start/end points and no duplication.  

    One reason I can think of that they didn't just copy "ride" segments over to the e-bike category is that e-bikes are not legal in all places that regular non-motorized bikes are.  It would have created a bunch of e-bike segments that were not even allowed to be ridden by e-bikes.  

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  • Wait what on earth are cani-sports? Is this an actual feature request or just trolling? There’s no way anyone, let alone a community, is actually asking for a separate canine assisted only leaderboard on strava.

    Also good point Erik there are many painfully obvious UI updates within this forum that are or should be easily implemented. I feel either a new approach is needed or there needs to be better visibility and transparency towards the users that care enough to voice their opinion here. Hell open up your API to a select few and they’ll gladly do the work for you.

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  • William O.

    For what it's worth, I just looked at a Segment I created a little while ago - it's 447 metres long, I only attempted it once and it took me 55 seconds (about 18 mph).  I edited it just now to count the number of GPS points in it - there are 36, which suggested my GPS is measuring every 1.5 seconds (I just have a simple and old Android phone for GPS).  Hence with 36 data points the error in time/distance might be about 3% - not ideal for distinguishing very similar performances but it's enough to tell me that I'm some way behind the KOM holder (32 seconds) and hence would still give me a good sense of any improvement I might make in working towards a target. 

    I think having such Segments has some purpose and value in Strava and I disagree with the apparent (unannounced) change to increase the minimum length from 300 metres to 500 metres.

    I therefore implore Strava to revert to the 300 metre limit (and if the lack of precision offends some athletes they can always hide the shorter Segments 😀)   

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  • Here the BIGGEST problem by far is that one single person intentionally ruins all segment boards by bulk uploading hundreds of faked activities. This is happening for 3 years now on 100s of segments in the region, and that strava is still unable to delete these sh*** directly when attempting to upload is really annoying. It needs one single look at it to easily see that it is all fake - speed graph is just a single line at 40km/h or so, the IDENTICAL data is uploaded several times, mostly created by mimicking one of the top-3 activities with computed speeds.

    I really am disapponted with strava after all that time still not to have any solution for this.

    Here a 5% ascend, the first 2 REAL entries are pro riders from our region.

    https://www.strava.com/segments/5686647?filter=overall

     
    K... . 5. Apr. 2021 42,7km/h - 461W Leistungsmesser 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 5. Mai 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 5. Juli 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 19. Okt. 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 19. Okt. 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 5. Mai 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 7. Juni 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Strava Athlete 7. Juni 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
     
    Ohne Perspektive 19. Okt. 2018 42,7km/h - - 2.078,6 2:57
    10 Jason Osborne 7. Juni 2018 33,0km/h 175bpm 523W Leistungsmesser 1.606,6 3:49
    11 Andreas Fließgarten 15. März 2019 30,2km/h - 387W Leistungsmesser 1.471,7

    4:10

     

     

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  • Ian Barton - The bottom line is that there are thousands of duplicate or poorly made segments and the system needs a way to get cleaned up.  Just hiding them is NOT a solution.  It does not get rid of them.  It does not fix them.  Yes, the suggested segments when creating a new one does a little up front, but it does NOTHING for already created duplicates.  While a person here or there may get a little miffed at their segment being removed, that is life.  Make it like when someone flags an activity, the owner gets the opportunity to defend their segment with an explanation.  If that satisfies the moderator as a reason it should be kept, then great.  If not, they can proceed with deleting it. 

    Right now, it is totally ridiculous.  I can do a single ride and, if I ride fast, I could end up getting 3-5 KOMs for the same short section of trail because of all of the duplicate segments.  Yes, I can hide them, but they are still there in the background.   

    I think it could be set up similar to Trailforks, where there are moderators for particular areas.  I wouldn't use something like Local Legends because, as you say, they change frequently and vary greatly based on specific trails.  It could just be someone who applies to Strava to be a moderator and supports it with proof of their familiarity with an area based on their heatmaps.  There could be a challenge mechanism where if someone didn't agree with their segment being deleted or edited, they could challenge it with the moderator and, if not satisfied, they could submit a support request directly to Strava to look at.  

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  • I see a big need for a "This ride was on the this segment" flagging option. 

    I ride several MTB trials/segments that run on embankments, with a tarmac road next to it (40-60 meter away). Road rides are often mistakenly marked as on those segment.

    The MTB trail has elevation changes, so it's very easy to see if a certain ride is on segment or not. Currently the only option to "clean" the leaderboard, is to flag the whole ride, but that don't seem fair, as there is nothing wrong with it. So there really need to be an option to flag it as not being on the segment. Makes sense to put it on the activity->overview with the segment open.   

     

    This is one example. The first 3 rides as of today, are on the road (Selinevej)

    https://www.strava.com/segments/28385808

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  • Has anyone else noticed a recent problem when tying to edit the title of one of their own Segments ?

    About a week ago I noticed a small change to the format of the Segment form as seen on my browser - the Action drop-down had moved from the bottom right to the top right.  This seemed to correspond to a loss of the functionality to edit the title of a Segment - although the "Edit Title" option appeared below the title, when I clicked it nothing happened (I got the same result with multiple Segments and 2 browsers).  About 3 days later the Segment form layout reverted to the previous one and the Edit Title option worked as before - I assumed a Strava developer had made a minor update and reverted when it didn't work properly (and so I closed the ticket I had raised with Strava Support).  However, this morning I again see the "new" layout and I cannot edit a Segment title (I only wanted to correct a couple of typos !).

    Is it just me or do others have the same problem ? 

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  • Fully agree Ian Barton.

    On enduro segments, some riders shortcut when they are no more confident. When these shortcuts are bellow the GPS tolerance, they can win the KOM. Most of them didn't want to cheat.

    On another hand, some bad guys run shortcuts intentionally to win the KOM. These guys destroy the tracks and the segment become dangerous. For example, this technical segment with gaps, wallrides, jumps... was damage some weeks ago: https://www.strava.com/segments/24662847 . A parallel line came up avoiding all the difficulties, crossing the regular tracks. Shortcut is in the GPS tolerance. Saw the ground traces, some hundred runs on this shortcut to win the precious KOM. The current top 5 cheated. Legit riders and shapers had an IRL exchange with some of them. None was able to rerun similar time legit.
    >For this cheating issue, I suggest to stop to give definitive KOM with a time improvement bigger than 10%, without fly-bying with historical top10-20 riders on this part. So, if the other rider validate this ride, the KOM is validate. If not, he just have to rerun it with local riders. Simple and much secure.

    > For the cheating shortcut, I think you could check the comparison analysis riders chart, and suspect a shortcut when someone win 10s and more in less than 50m.

    > For all the shortcut, it would be nice to be able to report one suspicious segment and not all the ride too, to solve the withdraw shortcuter who win the KOM without cheating intention and run legit other part of the trail.

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  • I'm new to strava and I got something called "CR" but there is no place anywhere that says what it is.  Can a legend for stuff like this be put somewhere?

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  • An enthusiastic "Agreed!" with Matt to return to the previous leaderboard presentation!

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  • Sharing segments makes sense for other sports too, for example running vs. hiking vs. walking. For example on hiking trails parallel sets of segments exist for hiking vs. running (trail running), and for uphill segments the results are actually not that different. Yes, it would still make sense to have separate leaderboards but the segments themselves should be shared.

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  • I notice a bunch of similar complaints/comments in here but would have to agree with the onslaught of E-Biker's happily taking away KOM's and smashing their own previous PR's by recording their rides as normal "acoustic" rides.

    I even have an uptake in my own riding friends that couldn't care less tbh, and basically pat themselves on the back for smashing a KOM on their new "assisted" bikes. Pretty lame on their part, but not worth the argument about it from my side.

    This does put me off an actual subscription though, as segment times and PRs have no actual real relevance while this is occurring. All I focus on currently is beating my own PR's and assuming all others ahead may or may not be legit. 

    Maybe a simple prompt that pops up when someone does get a KOM or PR to acknowledge they are in the right category (you'll probably need to be as specific as "were you riding an E-Bike?" though). If they acknowledge it still after that, then it just sits with the character of the person from there and I'm sure they're the same with other things outside of Strava. :)

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  • PLEASE ADD FILTERS AND SORTING TO "MY SEGMENTS" AND (IF POSSIBLE) "SEGMENT EXPLORER". I don't think this is too much to ask.

    Filters/sort like distance, KOM time, or grade are some simple ones to implement you would think.

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  • Currently, Nordic Skiing and Running share the same leaderboard, which should not be the case. It is substantially easier to outpace a runner on skis, especially if the skis in question are roller skis or if the segment has a negative grade.

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  • I do apologise for venting out my frustration, but yes I do agree with you Jason Lamoreaux power meters are note very common. If only there was an algorithm to weed out all the fake attempts, especially the ones speeding beyond the lawful limits of the road would have been one indicator for an auto flag. I managed to pair my power meter with Strava App once, because I forgot to charge my Garmin. Sadly the app crashed an hour into the ride, so I pretty much ended with no data for that ride. 

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  • David Lowther - from your description it looks like only that 'class 1' is an e-bike, there rest of it (more power, throttle, speed >25km/h) are mopeds and are vehicles (not a bike anymore)

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  • Can you exclude the time spent on the lifts on an alpine ski day from the segments list? It seems like it would be pretty easy to detect when on a lift since it is a constant speed with a fixed begin and end point and the end point is much higher than the begin point. The overall outline of the day is useful, but seeing how fast the lift is moving is completely useless. Many of the downhill segments are missing from the segment list as you can see from the two back to back "Needle Peak Rd Climb" which is probably a mountain bike route since I doubt that any alpine skier is going up the hill on their skis and there is no lift by that name at Heavenly. I do love seeing how many runs I do in a day and how many miles/km I have skied, but again, it would be great to remove the miles/km spent on the lifts from that total. Thanks!

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  • Regarding what others have said (Ian Barton, etc.) Strava really needs to increase the accuracy of segment matching. There are many many rides where people's devices are leaving 10s gaps between GPS points. The current algorithm seems to match the closest point within the segment as the timed distance.

    This can lead to people having advantages of well over 10s compared to people with 1s intervals.

    For example if someone has their GPS recording every 5s

    0,5,10,15 ... 90, 95, 100

    and there's a segment from 13s to 84s

    instead of getting a time of 71s they only match between the closest points within the segments, i.e. 15s to 80s, this gives them a much faster time of 65s recorded for the segment.

    An error of 6 seconds is pretty big and this is a fairly tame example, I've seen live cases where people are gaining more than double this advantage.

    This makes it incredibly frustrating to complete on these segments where people can have totally unfair advantages of over 10s simply because their GPS data is of poor quality.

    If you look flybys or comparisons you can see that Strava does interpret these poor GPS tracks quite well, correctly interpolating extra points so we see smooth movement rather than jumps between actual GPS points.

    Clearly Strava can work out more accurate times if it wants to. Now I understand this may be computationally expensive, in that case simply round the data the other way. Match the points just before and just after the segment.

    It is totally unfair that those with dodgy GPS units gain an advantage and those with accurate data are effectively penalised.

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  • Strava needs to create a virtual leaderboard for all virtual or indoor activities, and keep the regular leaderboard for efforts that are undertaken outside> As others have proposed, I too will not be renewing if things stay the way they are, and we have been calling for this for a while now. 

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  • Yes! Francois' idea to be able to "abdicate" a KOM would be a great addition. I have a KOM on a Nordic ski segment as a result of my GPS drifting and making a straight-line short-cut on the segment. I researched how to delete a segment but to no avail. I'm reluctant to delete the entire activity as I made a leaderboard on another segment the same session. But I would happily abdicate my unearned KOM for the segment in question. 

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  • As a comment to Jojos answer on "restarted leaderboards". A simple way to solve it is if Strava doesn't match earlier rides to a newly created segment. In other words, to end up in the leaderboard, you have to ride the segment AFTER it was created. That would solve many problems with slightly changed courses where "we" want a new leaderboard without old efforts popping up. (Doesn't solve new rides popping up in OLD leaderboards on almost identical segment but that I think is a smaller problem, main focus should be to keep the leaderboards up to date, if that messes up a leaderboard that is 5 years old that shouldn't matter as much)

    Also while on the line, what's the progress on the by far most upvoted request, to be able to communicate with the segment creator? Duplicates, segment inflation and incorrect segments are killing Strava, give the community (we who use Strava) a chance to clean up the mess.

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  • Zwift offers the rubber band feature, which helps friends to stay together during a meetup even though they are performing differently. Example: Person A needs 30 min for a certain segment and person B needs 1h for the same. In a meetup with rubber band activated, both need 45 min for the segment. Person B would never make it to 45 min from their own performance. So the segment effort is unrealistic and should not appear within the leader board. This way the whole Segment thing is absurd for virtual segments.
    I don't say there should be no virtual segments as segments are fun in virtual worlds as well, but as it currently is, it's not half the fun, as it's not reliable.

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  • I'd disagree about the requiring HR etc. Matt. It's just stopping some people taking part. My own HR strap is busted and by the looks of it, I won't be able to get one for months with current demand and Covid slowdowns on production but I got a few KOMs only recently. Ebikes and motors are easy to spot, local moderators would work well or autoflags, for rides that pop out to prescreening.

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  • @Melvatron, Strava will never implement auto-flagging of activities or segments based on top speed because then it will have a lot of support requests from angry users. The top speed that you see in segment leaderboards isn't real most of the time - it is a result of Strava's faulty segment matching algorithm combined with smart recording used by users on their Garmin devices.

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  • Why this topic is called "Segment Leaderboards" and not "Segments" in general? Where do we discuss segment creation, discovery, and matching?

    The biggest feature that I miss on Strava, that would significantly enhance my experience, is ability to discover long segments. I am onto segments that take at least an hour to complete and potentially multiple hours. Think about those as virtual races or FKTs! Long segments especially make sense when running on trails in mountains where there are some well established routes, but also it is a cool way to introduce a new challenge and share with others. I think road cyclists would also welcome this feature.

    At the moment the only realistic way to discover long segments is to spot them in activities of others. Segment explorer almost never shows them if there are enough shorter segments in the area as shorter segments are guaranteed to be more popular, just because they have a higher chance to be matched.

    A simple and reasonable solution would be to add a filter in Segment Explorer on segment distance. I know from the old forum, that has been requested multiple times over years. Why Strava is reluctant to implement this kind of filter by distance?

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  • Linus Holmgren Totally agree with you. I help out at the local MTB-park and the trails are constantly evolving, this must be problem for many parks. The leaderboards for the recent routes are completely irrelevant since it's all runs made a year ago on a much shorter/faster route, sad because it makes the concept of segments useless in the park.

    The simple solution would be an option to not include previous runs when creating a segment. A box to tick if you don't want to include runs retroactively.

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  • Don MacDonald - E-bikes are already separated out, so that is not part of this discussion.  If you see those rides showing up in the leaderboards, they should be flagged.  As far as seasonal leaderboards, how would you choose when to separate them?  Snow comes and goes at different times every year in any one location, much less across the country/world.  It would be impossible to pick a date range for any season that would be remotely accurate across multiple years.  Here in Alaska, we have some years where we have little to no snow even through the end of December and people are rallying the trails on mountain bikes.  Other years, we have snow early in the fall and/or late in the spring, so people on fat bikes are still hammering the segments when it would traditionally be mountain bike season.  Personally, I like the idea that some segments are faster in the summer and some are faster in the winter.  We don't need there to be multiple sets of leaderboards for every segment.  That just starts leaning towards the "everyone gets a medal" idea which is a bit annoying.  

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