Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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Commentaires

478 commentaires
  • Jaisah Webb

    We can't remove, retire, or globally deactivate these segments even if the trails have changed because those past efforts are still valid as that was a real route at that point in time.

    What I would suggest is to hide any segments that are no longer current and then use the tips in this article to see if you can create a new segment to account for the trail changes. You'll want to check out the sections on parallel trails and switchbacks as those tips are probably most relevant to this scenario: https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/21074038-Optimizing-Segment-Creation-how-to-create-good-segments


    As you'll see in the article above, it's very possible your new efforts may still get matched to old segments—this is a limitation of our matching system. If you hide those old segments and do your best to create new/high quality segments with the tips above, it will be less noticeable. 

    Here's information on how to hide a segment: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918177 

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  • And similar to Dan's request, above, it would be great to be able to see the age of another user and also look at other Age Group Leaderboards than my own. 

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  • Hi Jaisah Webb please look here https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360013091092 

    Hope you can leave a positive vote :-) 

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  • Peter Cajthaml

    15 oct 2020

    je suis plus ou moins d'accord :

    Oui il ne faut pas que le VTTAE soit sur le même classement KOM/QOM que le VTT classique mais aujourd'hui Strava ne donne pas les mêmes possibilités en VTTAE et VTT

    les segments ne sont pas les mêmes du coup il faut créer 2 segments pour le même endroit avec le même nom , pas de local légend en VTTAE ; pas de classement sur la même sortie avec des musculaires même avec un signe distinctif, pas ouvert aux challenges Strava etc 

    dans les descentes un VTTAE et un VTT sont a armes égales (voir désavantage pour le VTTAE par son poids et empattement )

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  • This is the first time I've commented on this topic and frankly I don't have the answers, but looking at the leaderboards on a couple of my favourite climbs its abundantly clear that efforts are being recorded as regular rides when they are in fact E-Bike rides. There's one particular local climb where the efforts on the leaderboard suggest that the top 20 riders would have had enough power to beat Mathieu VdP on the final climb of the 2021 Strade Bianche! ... and having looked through some of the data and associated photos its pretty clear that the majority were "motorised". In this case the road climbs up to a wood where there are some MTB trails and the majority appear to be E-MTBs ... and I get that they start recording their ride and are focusing more on the trails to come rather than the roads used to access them (and don't want to stop and start recording). But if you are on an E-MTB ... you should record an E-MTB ride. I feel sorry for the guy in 19th place on the all-time leaderboard who put out 460W and 176bpm to average 18kph up the ramp ... he is quite clearly the KoM on a regular bike! It seems a shame but essentially I ignore anything lacking HR and actual power data, and also suspiciously fast times where there is power data but no HR data (as this appears to be a symptom of an e-bike ride ... why have a power meter but no HR strap!). I just don't think that the "cultural" approach works ... maybe the way forward is a verified leaderboard where efforts must include power / HR data and there is some form of delta calculation occurring versus other efforts on the segment to flag spurious or incorrectly labelled attempts? In the example I mention above you can clearly see where the E-bike efforts end and the regular bike ones begin ... there's a huge sudden drop in average speed between 2 efforts. Not everyone can afford a power meter ... that's fair to say, but as Strava estimates FTP is there a way to combine this information with the data for the segment (distance / gradient) and again build in some delta screening versus other times? As I said at the beginning, I don't have the answers ... and its not like we are going to end up going down the Zwift Racing verification route (that's a pain) ... there will always be those who desire the KOM crown without the effort, but there are also people out there who don't want to tell the virtual world they are on an e-bike (I know a few) and some who just fail to record the right activity ... as for me, I rarely trouble the top ten on any of my local segments (I think I have a 2nd and a 6th place and that's it) so its not sour grapes, just a belief in doing right by those who truly deserve the crowns on offer.

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  • As trails change, can we get the KOM / Leader board reset? Over the past 10 years, we have added shape to a trail in our local park. More turns = more fun. But this year, Covid / Land Managers have prevented us from doing trail work and the result is not pretty. Riders are straight lining the trail and not using the perfectly shaped turns. The result is beginners are seeing the line and trying to take it, resulting in slow speed crashes. Problem is that the KOM is like 46 seconds and it's not achievable, but the Youth today is determined along with some of the elders. The fast times are 59 seconds and I like to do it in 1:20. I have video proof of the trail before and after if that helps. Trail name "Cactus DH" Saitiago Oaks, Orange, CA.

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  • I just noticed that rides I have done in the last couple of days aren't refreshing segments when I switch the activity to "E-Bike Ride". This is an issue since I don't want to be falsely getting KOMs in sections that I obviously didn't achieve. Is anyone else seeing issues with Ebike rides refreshing in segments properly?

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  • Sebcestbien P - I understand your point, but please consider this:

    it took many years to develop the MTB segments on Strava. Have patience, new E-bike segments are being created every day, and in some time you will be have a comparable network of segments for e-bikes.

    And I am sure that Local Legends will also be added for e-bikes as well as other activities in the future.

    I am primarily concerned with climbing segments, where people's legitimate efforts are being erased by those with an unfair mechanical advantage.

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  • Peter-Cajthaml

    Your advise doesn't fully fit my message.
    "thus keeping your other achievements while removing the one with an error."

    1. If my main achievement is a PB on half-marathon....cropping and editing doesn't help !  At least not to avoid frustration.
    2. An unexpected and undeserved KOM isn't customer's fault, so why should we correct Strava's loosy matching algorithm ?  => To me for respect and fairness regarding  other fellow of the Strava's community. I just wish Strava could offer an easy way to correct an undeserved KOM (something easier or as easy  as the procedure to claim an unmatched Segment ! As of today you can claim an unmatched segment...the reverse is to my knowledge not possible !)

    The new "Oddity awareness message" presented by Jojo is a very good feature, I just wish It could be extended to undeserved KOM with in mind the same principle "Make the customers aware of something that accidently went wrong" and sic "with few click" "adjust to correct" the activity.

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  • I have a couple of requests for ideas that have come to me as I use Strava.


    1) Simply a way of selecting a single date or range on leaderboards, so that you can compare your time in an event, or to others who rode in the same weather conditions. It's annoying to be able to do this only on the same day with the "today" selection, as that option obviously disappears by the next day.


    2) Segment Combining. A way of selecting segments on a route for comparing the overall time of all the segments selected.

    This allows in between segments where traffic/junctions/conditions dictate slower safe riding to be removed from a route, with safer sections ridden hard for combined total time. 


    Also useful for creating workout routes with hard and recovery segments.

    This could make segments more interesting than just a short effort to compare, and could allow users to set up safe longer courses to compare times on.

    Ability to save these "courses" publicly or privately or for groups.

    Allows for a brand new series of leaderboards for the course, with new KOM/QOM to attain.

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  • Hi

    I'm looking at leaderboards on Strava, and I'm disappointed to find that some people are active for more hours than it is possible to be active (greater than 24 hours per day). My question is, are they 'cheating' (somehow manipulating the data) or is it a problem with data interpretation in Strava itself.

    I just get a bit disheartened, when I see this and makes me question if the membership is worth it, when folks are not quite honest (or appear to be), never mind e-bikes!

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  • Sounds like what a lot of people want could be addressed by a more flexible set of filters on the leaderboards.

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  • Be great to have a filter to include or exclude pro athletes from leader boards so you can see how you stack up against other mere mortals!

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  • There's too much on this forum to read but I just wanted to request that on the strava app that it includes the 'I'm following' leaderboard. It's the leaderboard I look at the most on the Web as they are real people. I couldn't care less for the order leaderboards.

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  • Alex Dimitriou - Strava is terrible at detecting whether someone is riding in a group.  Have you actually looked at what they claim?  I've been listed as riding in a group with people I never even saw on the ride, much less was ever close enough to for drafting or even communicating with them.  Their algorithm is terrible.  I am almost always riding alone, yet frequently am listed as riding "with" one or more others for some reason. Maybe I passed them somewhere along the ride and we rode a similar route for a distance?  Definitely not anything they could even begin to use to definitively determine group vs. solo rides.  You make a good point with the fact that not everyone uses Strava.  Even if they had a flawless method of evaluating rides uploaded to them as to whether they were in a group of other riders who also uploaded their rides, they would have no way to tell if you were riding with people who did not use Strava.  

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  • Thank you very much Charles for letting me know about this! 👏

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  • Shivam, just make the opposite segment if you want it.

    Many segments won't make sense or will be dangerous in reverse.

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  • Shivam Shah - Segments are created by users just like you and me.  If you don't see one that you think there should be, then you should make it.  They are pretty easy to create using the desktop version of Strava.  Just open your activity, scroll to the bottom of the list of segments and click "Create a New Segment" and then follow the directions.  

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  • Shivam Shah Why not just create your own segments in reverse if that's the way you prefer to run ? I doubt any GPS will be able to calculate a segment in reverse !

     

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  • Hi Francois,

    Thank you for the detailed post. We have an engineering team that has been working on improving the integrity of segment data, including the geometry/GPS trace as well as things like elevation and distance data. As you mention, this has many benefits including matching and leaderboard quality.

    The "consensus averaging" technique you mention is one of the approaches we have been prototyping that works well in some cases but falls short in others. For example, if you have a road and a trail closely alongside it, and there are segments for both but the majority of people take the road, you could end up "averaging" out the trail segment towards the road. This is also not an impossible problem to solve, but we're trying to take care before deciding whether or not to make changes at a wide scale across the world to segment data.

    That said, thanks again for providing your example and I am hopeful that we will be able to make some improvements on problems like this in the coming months!

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  • Hi Varun 🥐 P. thanks that's great. It does seem though that Strava are now downplaying the KOM, at one time if I got one it would display on my dashboard but now that seems to favour PR's so nobody sees it unless they open the actual activity?

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  • I would like to see a start date for segments. In my town, there is still much development. Unfortunately, in several locations they have added roundabouts to what were previously straight roads. In one location, there was a road with a descent followed by a 1/4 mile flat section. A single lane roundabout was placed at the end of the descent. Although the current segment for the 1/4 mile flat section starts at the roundabout, the system populates times for all riders who've travelled the segment, including those who did so years prior to the roundabout construction. Naturally, since they had the benefit of the downhill descent their 35+ MPH times cannot be beaten by anyone who must now navigate through the narrow roundabout at the start.

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  • I have attempted many of the Segments in my local area and so I'm looking for new inspiration.  I have tried to use the Segment Explore feature to find new Segments but without much success.  When I explore a broad area the feature shows 10 results, presumably ranked by some criteria such as most attempts or most starred .  This is fine.  However, when I zoom in the number of visible Segments soon falls below 10, even though I know there are many Segments in the area that are not being shown.  Is there a way to get the results of the Segment Explore to be more complete so it would be easier to find some new Segments to attempt ?

    When looking for new Segments I have much more success with the "Don't see the segment you're looking for?" button at the bottom of an Activity to show Segments adjacent to the Activity.

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  • Can Strava not put something in its algorithm that will automatically pick up when someone has used a vehicle. This is quite obvious whether it is a cycling or running segment. On one of the segments I recently ran there were examples of people running 3 minute and even 2 minute miles. I get that someone may do some sprints but a 2 minute mile is not humanly possible.

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  • I 'd like strava work on the exclusion of "somehow truncated gps trace". It would help to keep  leaderboard clean and avoid this ridiculous situation with the comparison feature : https://www.strava.com/segments/21374662/compare/NjUwNzc2NDg0NDYsNjc1NDg1MzcwOTcsNjc1NDg1NDg2MTQsMjc4NzY3Mjk3OTIyMzc5Mjc4NiwyODMwMDQyOTU5NDMzODM3ODc0In this very short segment (200 m)...the itchy points are :

    • The athlete in black (running @5:13/km, far behind on the screenshot) hold, of course, the KOM !
    • None of the pace reported on the segment seems to be below 5:00/km and the average pace of the black athlete is supposed to be 2:10/km

    The run associated with this KOM, doesn't mention the KOM -- I guess the segment has been created later on, so the athlete didn't try to hunt this segment or cheat in any way. Furthermore the athlete have good references, so that at first glance this astonishing performance may be possible, or to the very least flagging it remain questionable. A technical look from strava at the situation may end-up to a wise decision.

    I imagine the comparison feature is a nice tool provided with my subscription to strava...but guess what ? Offering a tool that magnify the lack of curation in the segment leader board question the added value of the subscription to strava.

    As I know that a lot of improvement are on their way, I hope this annoyance will disappear as well. To the very least, I wanted to pinpoint this issue hopefully as a first step toward a fix   !

    Cheers

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  • François, this happens all the time.

    Strava seems to treat the end of the segment as the last point within the segment, even if that point is no where near the end. This leads to ridiculous rounding errors and false KOMs.

    Strava should round times up not down.

    Athletes with good GPS are punished and those with bad GPS are rewarded. 

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  • Hi Alex Michel - I agree with your comments. I see quite a few poorly created Segments where the start is just before a junction, or the end is just after a junction, making it easy for people to join after the start or leave before the end, so resulting in skewed leaderboard data.  This is due to poor Segment creation rather than inauthentic behaviour. I tend to hide such Segments, and maybe create new ones with better start and finish definition.

    I hadn't realised that someone could start an Activity after the start of a Segment (or stop one before the end) and so get unrealistic leaderboard positions.  I suppose this also means Activities could be cropped to achieve the same thing, which would seem inappropriate.  There should be a restriction that a Segment effort is not valid if the Activity beginning or end is within the Segment.

    For what it's worth, the minimum Segment length is 300m for a ride, as I have discovered through trial and error, although there are some shorter legacy ones created a few years ago.

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  • Hi Alex Michel and Ian Barton! Thanks for your feedback on our segment matching process. What you're seeing is a result of the way our algorithm accounts for GPS drift. However, to your point, on segments originally created with spotty/inaccurate GPS, multi-lap segments, or segments that may have tight switchbacks (which will typically cause an overlap of GPS data), our algorithm's GPS drift lenience may cause faulty matches as well. Ian Barton's solution to hide these segments and create new segments with better data is an excellent workaround to see data that better reflects true efforts. We will pass your feedback along to our team for future improvements on segment clean-up!

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  • As someone who is never going to threaten the KOM times I find myself spending most of my time in the age and weight leaderboards. However some of the people who are as old as me are not as fat as me, and some of those that are as fat are not as old. I would like to see a leaderboard for people in both my age and weight category, not just one or the other.

    In fact it would be great if you could create customised leaderboards using all of the flags available in the database. This might solve some of the problems above my allowing you to select bike type, single rides, etc.

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  • We should be able to flag an athlete, either by a direct button, or automatically if X of his activities are flagged by X many different athletes.

    In this case, all his activities would be flagged in the same time, saving a lot of time for the other users.

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