Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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Commenti

344 commenti
  • Regarding negative slope segments, those aren't available as Live Segments even to runners! I live in a moderately hilly area, which means half of all Strava segments aren't visible on my Garmin watch, which I use exclusively for running.

    What is especially silly is that any loop segment or an out-and-back segment ends up having 0% overall slope so it is available even if it is super hilly, so it all depends on a luck of whether the end point of segment is below the start point or not, regardless of amount of hills in between.

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  • Ian Barton, regarding matching segments when a person doesn't fully complete it, I've seen it many times on running segments where it is even easier to join a segment later or simply turn around before the finish. 

    Strava never guarantees that segment start and finish points are actually crossed. The algorithm simply finds a point on a track which is closest to segment start while still being within a certain radius from from it. It does the same for the finish. The radius is substantial to allow segments still match at cycling speeds when using smart recording on GPS devices (e.g. recording every 5 seconds or even less often). 

    Strava could fix this by making the algorithm better. For example, even if the closest point matching a segment start/finish is within a segment they could try to "draw lines" to next/previous points to see if those lines go even closer to the actual start/finish. That interpolation between points would provide much more accurate criteria for matching a segment, as well as much more accurate timing, and prevent issues like someone cutting into segment from a side or exiting early. That would be possible because the matching radius for the interpolated start/finish point could be much tighter. And I think the improved algorithm would be only marginally more expensive in computing cost.

    @Jojo, if you read this comment, please pass it to the development team. Doing interpolation would be a real improvement that would solve many of the problems that currently exist on segment leaderboards. For example, that would solve a problem of someone showing a higher average speed on a segment than their peak speed during the same segment. I'd be happy to provide more details if needed.

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  • Remove the artificial limit to sync max 100 live segemnts on Garmin devices:

    • Strave users are asking for this since more than 5 years
    • It's my device, my storage, my choice! If I want a thousand segments on my Garmin unit and reduce the available storage for courses and activities, that's my choice!
      BTW 100 segments consume only 874Kb on a Edge 820
    • Wahoo devices do not have this this artificial restriction of 100 live segments. Why Garmin users treated worse?
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  • Nordic Skiing: Differentiate Skate & Classic - because skate skiing is a much faster technique than classic, it is very difficult for a classic skier to make a Nordic segment leaderboard. Suggestion: When starting a workout and choosing an activity, break Nordic Ski into its two disciplines: Nordic Ski - Skate, and Nordic Ski - Classic. They could share the same segments but have different leaderboards. If not possible to share the same segments, then allow Classic to begin creating new segments for that discipline. Thanks!

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  • Please could we have age group awards. A Gold, Silver and Bronze with 55+ etc. Not a top 10 as this could get a bit cluttered, but a top three award on the activity page would be nice. I'd like to have the incentive to still be riding in 30 years time.

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  • Stanislav C.

    Thank you for your feedback regarding my comment and adding to the conversation.

    I like your suggestion of filtering segment leaderboards by sport rather than creating dual leaderboards for walking and running. Either way, I think it is important for people who are hiking or walking to be able to see how they are going against other like-minded individuals.

    When I am returning to running by doing my long walks, I put the effort in similar to a run and it's nice to see how my pace compares to others in this respect. I have also recently taken up hiking and often cover long distances, so it's nice again to see how my performance (not trail running) compares to others.

    The issue of junk data in the segment leaderboards is definitely more a concern for electric bikes corrupting standings for mountain bike and road biking activities. That said, there are numerous segments where I live where the running top spot is incredibly dubious at best.

    As you mention, there needs to be an automatic process to invalidate impossible segment efforts, leaving a smaller number of questionable entries that can then be left to human moderators to verify. I saw one 'walk' where someone drove 40-odd kilometres on a highway, forgetting to turn their watch off after their actual walk. This kind of activity should be automatically weeded out.

    I also think there needs to be some accountability about junk data. There are accidental uploads (forgetting to turn the watch off driving home) and then there are those who do wish to cheat (using an electric scooter to record a run). But users who continue to muddy the leaderboards should face some kind of action. I am not suggesting they be banned altogether, but I think their ability to interact with the segment leaderboards should be curtailed. This could be a sliding scale of short suspensions through to total disablement of the feature. Without consequences, there is no encouragement for people to either not seek to cheat the leaderboards or be careless uploading incorrect sport types against the activity performed - i.e. recording a bike ride as a run.

    My suggestion for managing this moving forward is for Strava to:

    1. Introduce an automatic process to immediately weed out impossible activities

    2. Continue allowing users to flag activities that are dubious for human review

    3. Caution users who continue to be responsible for junk activities in segment leaderboards

    4. Have a sliding scale of penalties for repeat offenders ranging from temporary to permanent exclusion from contributing to leaderboards

    For me, I don't need a leaderboard or a standing to get out and be active. But since I am paying for Strava's extra features and genuinely don't mind doing so since I enjoy the app, I think it is important we have integrity with the leaderboards to keep them clean and meaningful.

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  • Louis Spencer - Count me as one who strongly disagrees with you idea.  Segments are really pretty simple.  They are designed to be able to measure someone's performance along a specific path between two given points.  The fastest person to complete that "segment" by a given method of travel (run, bike, ski, etc...), gets to be listed as the KOM.  Nothing matters outside of the limits of that segments as far as segments are concerned.  Whether someone completed that segment as part of a 1-mile interval or as part of a 30 mile continuous effort doesn't matter.  If you are concerned with trying to earn the KOM for a given segment, you are more than welcome to do it under the same conditions as others.  Your idea would be impossible to implement on any kind of fair basis. You would be giving someone or some group the ability to pick and choose what they felt was a reasonable effort over the rest of a workout to qualify what was allowed for a segment effort.  Do segments only count if someone was on a run that was a minimum of 10k?  Who gets to decide?  If you want to have KOMs that more accurately reflect the stronger runners over a longer distance/effort, make longer segments.  Personally, I really like bike segments that are 30-60 minutes in length because it adds additional challenges to the rider and they must maintain a solid effort throughout.  But, I also like shorter segments at times because it really tests the sprinting ability.  While I am one of the stronger riders in the area I ride, there are some sprint segments that I can't touch because I am just not fast enough on sprinting, but I can beat those who do have the KOMs for them on longer rides typically.  It doesn't mean I want to take away their ability to compete for the KOM on those shorter segments.  

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  • As often suggested, please either begin interpolating segment start/end or use a more pessimistic model and choose the points before the start and end to guarantee a segment was fully completed.

    A friend of mine rode some segments with both a Garmin and the strava app recording, then compared the two results. The app gave out KOMs like candy because the GPS simply isn't as good; recording every second doesn't matter when you're recording less accurate location data. Precision vs accuracy.

    Many of the KOMs in my area are simply repeating the segment until you get lucky and strava gives you that "bonus" second, even though the actual speed data obviously is no faster.

     

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  • m . - I totally disagree.  It is unreasonable to expect everyone to pay $500-$1000 for a power meter just to compete for segments.  I routinely ride/race on 5 different bikes (road, tt, mountain, cross, and snow).  I have power meters for a couple of them, but no way I should be expected to invest that kind of money into every bike to be eligible for segments. Add in that things like power meters won't sync with the Strava app in the first place, so all those using the phone app for this program would not be able to compete for segments.  If you see times that seem way off, check them out and flag them if you suspect there is something suspicious about it.  

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  • Jason Lamoreaux - Hi Jason - thanks for your post.  I share your concerns about poor quality and duplicated Segments.  However, I can't help feeling that if a user doesn't take the time to carefully create a new Segment they are unlikely to respond to feedback from other (anonymous) users who request Segment edits or deletions.  I am in the habit of simply hiding poor Segments and this seems to work quite well (I've just hidden 3 poor Segments with corrupted leader-boards from my bike ride of today).

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  • If Segment is made from multiple laps of a loop the best consecutive attempt should be used as PR

    If there is a segment that is for example 5 laps around a mile loop and an attempt is made by riding for example 8 laps Strava will use the first 5 lap as the best effort even if the middle 5 or last 5 laps of the 8 were the fastest effort. It would be more useful/accurate if Strava recorded time for each set of 5 consecutive laps to determine the best time for the 5 lap segment.  That way if you warm up on the first lap then hammer for 5 more the last five will be the PR instead of using the first 5 including the warm up lap as the PR and ignoring the last fast lap as it does currently.

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  • I ask Strava if it is possible to create a new segment leaderboard, in addition to those for age and gender etc., only for those who ride with an ebike. Those who ride with an ebike would not be present in the other segment leaderboards, but only in the ebike one. This would avoid creating the existing segments agai

    I think it is not appropriate to duplicate the existing segments in order to create a leaderboard for those who use an eBike. I created a lot of segments myself when I used my human-powered bike and I wouldn't want to create them again using eBike.

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  • Strava's running segment leaderboards are relatively clean. Having recently started to do more long walks as part of an injury recovery plan, I have glanced at the walking segment leaderboards for the first time and have been quite shocked to see how much junk data there is on there.

    There are impossible segment efforts from people who clearly have been in a car; perhaps forgetting to turn their watch off after their genuine activity and driving home. Then there are those who were obviously on bikes.

    I don't need a leaderboard to walk and enjoy my walks but considering we are paying for this feature, there needs to be some attention given to cleaning this up. One local segment here has at least the first few pages filled with junk data.

    There is a portion of the data that is so wildly impossible (like 1 minute km splits for a 'walking' activity) I just don't understand how there is not some automatic program in place to weed these ones out.

    I think there needs to be a deterrent as well for these junk uploads to leaderboards. A three strike and you are out kind of rule. That's not to say banned from the site, but perhaps excluded from leaderboards for a period of time as a suspension period.

    It's not hard to be mindful of uploading true and proper accounts of activities and there does need to be a collective sense of goodwill from users to make the platform work. But knowing there will always be those who knowingly do the wrong thing or are just careless, Strava needs to step in with a framework to restrict these people from leaderboards if they continue to litter them with junk data, bringing down the usefulness of the feature for everyone else.

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  • The problem with your rationale Carlos Vigo is that it's probably 90% acoustic riders vs 10% e-bike riders using Strava, so you're then destroying the majority of the end users chances of achieving genuine relevant goals.

    I would be just pushing the Strava team to "fix" the functionality you are missing, rather than be part of the problem being discussed in this thread? 

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  • I dislike the fact that when I stumble across a segment that is full of cheaters who clearly logged their times in a vehicle and I am trying to clean it up with "user patrolled" flags, Strava cuts me off after around 6-7 flagged rides. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I suddenly start getting the message "Flagging content is temporarily disabled. Please try again later." I have to wait 24 hours or so then try again. Some of these segments are so obvious. People logging 45+ MPH on long 3% climbs. Some logging rides with top speeds in excess of 100 MPH! First off, how can this not be auto-detected? Secondly, when I am trying to clean up the mess, I get blocked. BTW... The same people pop up over and over. It's like a whack-a-mole. You flag one of their rides and they reappear on the segment leaderboard with another ride in which they've cheated.

    Here's a classic example for you. Find me one rider, just one, in the top fifty on this segment that didn't obviously log their time in a vehicle. https://www.strava.com/segments/22063172

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  • I agree.

    It makes user patrol a day after day, repeated task.

    The algorithms to detect and auto flag this are so simple from a programming perspective, it's offensive to me that Strava hasn't shown any progress on this front.  Speed, VAM, or even relative to prior KOM's (the next one might be a few percent more, not triple), adding in checks for real power data and heart rate, etc.

    Strava risks becoming an irrelevant myspace without some very easy, very basic intelligence applied to what is their core function - segments and leaderboards.

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  • You really need to allow rides to be reflagged, the number of people who just ignore the flag is ridiculous. Then having to write up an email to Strava support seems a horrendous waste of time. Basically allow a ride to be reflagged X times (eg 3 or 5), if it gets reflagged that many times, it goes to support who review the points made in the comments when flagged. Then they can disable reflagging or make it permanently private. Therefore the athlete doesn't lose the ride but it doesn't affect anyone else. It would take away a lot of frustration.

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  • 100% agree with M Farlock above.

    There's one persistent e biker in my vicinity who thinks the rules don't apply to categorize rides properly, or just enjoys being obnoxious to non-e bike riders.

    Every time his rides are flagged, he ignores it the maximum number of times before wasting Strava's time by getting it properly flagged.

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/4407764132237

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  • Isa Johnson - I disagree with the idea of using an average of the 3 best efforts for a leaderboard.  That would eliminate all people who only ride a trail one or two times from having the chance of getting on the leaderboard or going for a KOM.  I travel to other cities and states to ride from time to time, but often only end up riding a specific trail or segment once or twice.  Should I not be eligible for a KOM or a top 10 leaderboard spot just because I don't live there and get to ride it frequently?  What about those segments used for races that people only ride in the race, so only get one or two laps?  

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  • Is Strava considering to improve accuracy of segment leaderboards by doing interpolation between GPS points when matching segment start and finish?

    And why it isn't possible to post new topics on this new forum?

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  • I want Strava to add interpolation between points when there is more then 1 second between 2 points. The reason that is important is because the segment leaderboard will be more fair. 

    For example: Segment https://www.strava.com/segments/26377494 

    1. In 30 seconds with an average of 33.6km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4450098785/analysis/1723/1740)
    2. In 32 seconds with an average of 31.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4437581033/analysis/1866/1887)
    3. In 33 seconds with an average of 33.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4433313255/analysis/9336/9368)

    Nr 1 and 2 have a device that has a variable GPS interval recording. Sometimes it is each second, but it also can be 5 seconds in between 2 points. Some people also have a device with GPS interval of 5 seconds.

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  • Please allow all devices to sync more than 100 starred segments.  This will enable me to start using Live Segments reliably.  I have been a long term Strava user and have over 200 starred segments.  With the current 100 limit it is a lottery as to whether any given starred segment will appear in my Live Segments display.  Hammerhead tell me this is a general Strava API limit that applies to all devices and this makes sense given what I have seen on this issue across other forums.  Surely the data volume involved is tiny compared to the value it would give to Strava's most valuable customers, i.e. those that have been paying for many years and have accumulated a lot of starred segments.

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  • Contest on a segment for a period of time (race on a segment)

    With the covid period, some race organizers has created competitions based on Strava segments (e.g. Salomon Golden segments, etc.). It would be great to have a Strava feature for organizing a competition on a segment.

    There would be needed:

    • possibility to register for the competition (free or not, racer details, etc.)
    • show and acknowledge the rules (e.g. make the activity public immediately after the end of the activity, use an heart rate monitor, etc.)
    • create a specific leaderboard (only registered users for the contest and only during a period of time)
    • maybe some more tools for race organizers (segment creation, help for detection of cheated data, age categories leaderboards, registration platform, etc.)
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  • It seems to me that an easy solution from Strava would be to pose a question to people recording a ride who have not defined their bike: eBike/mountain bike/road bike/cross trainer/other and give each its own category and leadership board. Once you define your bikes, each bike you own would be in its appropriate class and all you would need to do is select the bike you are using for that particular ride. It doesn't seem like a hard thing to implement.

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  • TRUE AGE-GROUP KOMS

    I'm a geezer, over 55. Give us silver crowns!

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  • Hi Louis Spencer - some interesting ideas.  You seem to be saying that doing "intervals" during an activity (i.e. alternating hard and easy efforts) is against the spirit of Strava and shouldn't be allowed.  If I have understood you correctly then I would have to disagree - "intervals" is a valid and effective training method and I don't think it should be banned.  I see nothing wrong in someone doing an activity with 20 segments and focusing on 2 or 3 in order to try to set a PB.  The logical extension is that an activity would be flagged if the maximum effort exceeded the average effort by some small tolerance - I would strongly disagree with such an approach. 

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  • Looks good, a possible improvement might be too flag a "it looks like you forgot to turn off your GPS" when you got in your car. Really easy to spot visually, HR drops, speed increases multiple fold, cadence and other parameters disappear etc. The number of rides this happens on and they take out KOMs for miles on the drive home.

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  • https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/360014611412 

    Great news JOJO !

    In the same order of idea, offering user the possibility to correct an error, may it be due to  user mistake...or Segment matching fault.
    Would you consider offering a way to "Abdicate" a KOM title  ?

    The problem is that while you make a long run, if  at some point you get an unintended KOM (due to shortcut on a loop) BUT you have other fair achievement you wish to be publicly known...you are in the middle of a pickle ! (Making it public and frustrate the former KOM holder, or keeping it private...and being frustated !)

    If the same kind of message were send to the user leaving the choice to "abdicate" or accept the KOM maybe more corrections would be done by users themselves.

    Some message like "Wow you beat the previous KOM by a astonishing 50% margin" or "You seem to hold the new world record on the distance" ..."Something may went wrong. Would you like to change it ?".

    This would also tackle the  "mix activity" (run and bike, or getting in a car for a short part of the run leaving statistics "likely" but uncorrect).

    Once again, this would be another small step toward "information to and correction by the user" which I believe would be appreciated by the Strava Community.

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  • In the iOS mobile app, if I go to a friend's activity and tap on a segment, I cannot see what their rank on the leaderboard is. If I drill down into one of the leaderboards (Eg, "All Time"), I see my own rank on the list. It would be great if I also see my friend's rank in the same list (For example, maybe I'm 100/1000, and my friend is 50/1000).

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