Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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328 commenti
  • In my local area there has been some good competition on some Segments with the KOM changing hands 4 or 5 times between 2 or 3 riders.  It would be nice if there were a way to capture some of this competition.  The Segment leaderboards only show the PB for each athlete and so there is no way to see an old KOM performance if it is no longer the athlete's PB.  Could we perhaps have a small table in each Segment to show the evolution of the KOM performances ?  As well as seeing how the KOM has switched between different riders over time, it would be interesting to see the overall rate of improvement in the KOM performance as Strava attracts more users.

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  • I'd like that Strava think about "an alpha stage" for new public Segment. As most athlete interested to some extent in KOM hunting, I'm just frustrated by "far from optimal segment". For instance, most of my demand for Segment Mismatching are related to the pictured segment.

    In green the actual road, in red the segment (that I believe is used as THE pattern to be matched), in fact if the trace was true, one should run in the forest, enter in several private property, jump across 2 fences....

    So the problem is that the mismatch is --to me-- due to the reference used. It annoys me since every time I run in the area I know I should flag the mismatch in order to have it taken into account. However, we can notice that I (and other) went close to the segment, and if we superimpose 3 traces, we obtain this picture

    In fact the trace are relatively consistent ! And a simple trace averaging (a technique pretty used in statistics) could lead to a better consensus trace.

    So :

    1) Some segment use a poorly defined trace, which lead to frustration, lot of work handling segment mismatching, foster other poorly defined GPS trace or, even worst, creation of new, somehow redundant, segment.

    2) Strava have the data to obtain a better consensus trace

    My suggestion would be to create an "Alpha stage" for Public segment. During this stage, the segment would be tagged as alpha, so that athlete would know that the segment could still change, but as community members their run would contribute to the community. Most importantly, during the alpha stage, all the trace matching the segment would be gathered to create a "consensus segment", all the mismatch request, number of athlete running the segment or even the hazard flag, will be counted. At the end of the stage, a final decision from Strava would be delivered with some additional statistics explaining their choices, what is right and what is wrong with the segment.
    I believe, this could enhance the user experience, reduce the number of problematic segment and create another kind of challenge for the community who during a short period could benchmark new Segment.

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  • I see Strava now seem to have implemented giving you the KOM on your list if you are joint KOM/QOM. Previously they refused to do this despite announcing you had the KOM on your ride even if two of you got it together it went to the first to upload. I noticed this as my list got a little longer.

    Thank you Strava if this is indeed the case.

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  • Hi Francois,

    Thank you for the detailed post. We have an engineering team that has been working on improving the integrity of segment data, including the geometry/GPS trace as well as things like elevation and distance data. As you mention, this has many benefits including matching and leaderboard quality.

    The "consensus averaging" technique you mention is one of the approaches we have been prototyping that works well in some cases but falls short in others. For example, if you have a road and a trail closely alongside it, and there are segments for both but the majority of people take the road, you could end up "averaging" out the trail segment towards the road. This is also not an impossible problem to solve, but we're trying to take care before deciding whether or not to make changes at a wide scale across the world to segment data.

    That said, thanks again for providing your example and I am hopeful that we will be able to make some improvements on problems like this in the coming months!

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  • Hi Steve Tucker - this is indeed the case now and glad you enjoy! Happy crown hunting! 

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  • Hi Varun 🥐 P. thanks that's great. It does seem though that Strava are now downplaying the KOM, at one time if I got one it would display on my dashboard but now that seems to favour PR's so nobody sees it unless they open the actual activity?

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  • In the recent example from François G. the fundamental problem is that the Segment was not created very carefully and was subject to GPS drift, meaning not all subsequent Activities will match with it.  It has been suggested that communicating with the Segment creator might be helpful in addressing such issues although it may not always be successful.

    In my local area I became frustrated with a poor Segment that showed it going through a couple of houses and my Activities (on the adjacent road !) only matched about half the time.  I created a new Segment (based on an Activity with no drift from the line of the road) and simply used the same Segment name but with "less GPS drift" added in parentheses.  I then flagged the old Segment as hidden.  I notice that the new version of the Segment is now showing significantly more attempts than the old version, hence indicating the better matching.

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  • https://support.strava.com/hc/fr/profiles/711597680-Varun-P-  thank you for your reply.


    As https://support.strava.com/hc/fr/profiles/1487453724-Ian-Barton and other point it out GPS Drift and poor device quality are a problem. He demonstrate the value of better crafted segment for the community (more attempts) and I guess it should also reduce fostering bad GPS devices (generally errors adds-up ! A bad pattern to be matched + a loosely defined trace => Random results !). And...prove that community members of good will,  want to --and can-- find solutions !

    Note as you mentioned "For example, if you have a road and a trail closely alongside it, and there are segments for both but the majority of people take the road, you could end up "averaging" out the trail segment towards the road." 
    An algorithm that would blindly average trace around a segment could...a smarter algorithm testing the possibility of a mixture a N segment, may do better....but a community of involved athlete would benchmark the only segment needing to be benchmarked ! Then you should obtain a much better results. I mean it s mostly a question of organising thing to prevent problematic segment to be created ! Concerning the "heritage", I understand things are a tad bit trickier (At least, in the case of the track and the road where the model averaging fall short.....I am not convinced that the 2 original Segment really create no matching problem at all. If not...there should be a larger variance around your average point..nothing that a mixture model couldn't fix).

    Really, I encourage you to think about taking advantage of the strava community, at least allow us to help in getting annoyance fixed. With all that being said, thank you for your prompt answers, it's much appreciated, I am eager to see if, in a way, we have helped you getting some annoyance fixed. (You have a pretty good record of improvement lately, congrats and just keep that pace !)
    Cheers

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  • There should differentiators between road bikes, MTB’s and eBikes. Each discipline should have own crown and leader board, and yes we can still an overall leaderboard and crown.

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  • I would like to see a start date for segments. In my town, there is still much development. Unfortunately, in several locations they have added roundabouts to what were previously straight roads. In one location, there was a road with a descent followed by a 1/4 mile flat section. A single lane roundabout was placed at the end of the descent. Although the current segment for the 1/4 mile flat section starts at the roundabout, the system populates times for all riders who've travelled the segment, including those who did so years prior to the roundabout construction. Naturally, since they had the benefit of the downhill descent their 35+ MPH times cannot be beaten by anyone who must now navigate through the narrow roundabout at the start.

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  • Hi community, as many people said already i would love to see a MTB category; personally, in the area where i live there is a lot of off-road and tarmac routes, which make me prefer the MTB, but, compared to all road cycle bikers, my effort is (obviously) different, and i'm usually very slow compared to them.

    What i ask is to finally see a MTB category, so i can compare my tarmac performance with all people on the same boat of me.

    Thank you in advance!

    Diego

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  • I don't have a problem with lots of segments on a route. What is annoying is multiple segments with the same name, and also segments that are not descriptive. Ideally it should describe a start and end, or a nockname for a certain part of a route. But eliminating identical names should be pretty easy to do.  

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  • I have attempted many of the Segments in my local area and so I'm looking for new inspiration.  I have tried to use the Segment Explore feature to find new Segments but without much success.  When I explore a broad area the feature shows 10 results, presumably ranked by some criteria such as most attempts or most starred .  This is fine.  However, when I zoom in the number of visible Segments soon falls below 10, even though I know there are many Segments in the area that are not being shown.  Is there a way to get the results of the Segment Explore to be more complete so it would be easier to find some new Segments to attempt ?

    When looking for new Segments I have much more success with the "Don't see the segment you're looking for?" button at the bottom of an Activity to show Segments adjacent to the Activity.

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  • Hi.
    One more for mtb category !
    It s more difficult than before to find good segments with strava.
    It will be great to have possibility to write information or a segment description : single track, easy, technical,... And a value of the segment.
    Thanks

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  • ''Strava verified segments''

    I am writing because of the story I read on the strava blog. It's the featured story: 10 historic climbs in the Tour de France 2021. In this article they wrote about the climbs and with every climb they linked the segment to it. Well this made me think. It could be nice to see something like 'Strava verified segment'. Now when you take on a climb it's not always easy to find the right segment as a climb is mostly loaded with segments of (part of) the climb. With Strava verified segments it would make it so much easier and so much clearer which segment is the right one. There could be for example a SVS (Strava verified segment) of the Mont Ventoux from Bedoin to the top. The segment could be highlighted with some sort of token in the segments so it's even easier to find in your activity segments. In addition to this it could become a filter on the map when searching for nearby segments to only select SVS.

    Another addition to this suggestion would be that when you complete a Strava verified segment is would be highlighted in your profile. This way you can compare yourself to your friends much easier as to see who has done a big climb and how (s)he did.

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  • is it planned for near future updates that also all achieved top 10 segment results can be seen later on in a list, like all personal koms and local legends? So that we can also see if we drop out of the top 10 at a segment for example and get notifications for that? that would be really nice!

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  • Can Strava not put something in its algorithm that will automatically pick up when someone has used a vehicle. This is quite obvious whether it is a cycling or running segment. On one of the segments I recently ran there were examples of people running 3 minute and even 2 minute miles. I get that someone may do some sprints but a 2 minute mile is not humanly possible.

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  • When I go to a segment detail screen from a Friend's activity, I can not see where he stands on the leaderboards. If I have not attempted the segment before, the ranking is empty. (Tapping into the specific leaderboard rankings doesn't show his ranking either)

     

    If I have attempted the segment before, the leaderboards show *my* ranking, but not my friends. (example below). If I tap into the leaderboard, it only shows my placement within the rankings, but not my friend's rank.

    Could this be changed so that we can see the friend's ranking, at least within the ranking page when you tap into the leaderboard (eg, "All Time"). As an example, this way I can see that my friend is 600/2000, and I'm 722/2000 on the All Time ranking, whereas right now I can only see my own ranking of 722/2000.

    Thanks!

     

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  • Strava prevents flagging some activities saying they've been "resolved".

    I don't know what resolution has occurred, but look at this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/26782084?filter=overall

    The KOM is a low wattage, and the user admits to entering a deceitful or erroneous weight to achieve it.

    So the KOM is admittedly wrong, the user has admitted it, and when contacting Strava support they just shrug you off and say it's user patrolled (which is prevented here as it's "resolved").

    Strava needs to maintain the integrity of KOM's or the platform will go the way of myspace, becoming irrelevant - either by enabling users to (more than current) or having an appeals process that results in more than a PFO go put a complaint on our community boards.

     

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  • Erik Bakke the segment you shared is a virtual segment from a virtual ride. Virtual activity should not be flagged if it is correctly identified as a virtual activity. Here is more information about flagging Virtual Trainer Activities: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919587-Virtual-Trainer-Activities-on-Strava#flagging

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  • Erik Bakke Soren This definitely happens with real rides as well. In one recent case Strava did eventually take action, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. If Strava regard the leaderboards as being "user patrolled" then they need to make it less of a headache. It is not realistic for users to make tickets to keep the leaderboards clean, especially if it takes a week to action each one. Hopefully they will finally make auto-flagging actually work, because clearly there are not enough man hours available to do the job by hand.

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  • I dislike the fact that when I stumble across a segment that is full of cheaters who clearly logged their times in a vehicle and I am trying to clean it up with "user patrolled" flags, Strava cuts me off after around 6-7 flagged rides. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I suddenly start getting the message "Flagging content is temporarily disabled. Please try again later." I have to wait 24 hours or so then try again. Some of these segments are so obvious. People logging 45+ MPH on long 3% climbs. Some logging rides with top speeds in excess of 100 MPH! First off, how can this not be auto-detected? Secondly, when I am trying to clean up the mess, I get blocked. BTW... The same people pop up over and over. It's like a whack-a-mole. You flag one of their rides and they reappear on the segment leaderboard with another ride in which they've cheated.

    Here's a classic example for you. Find me one rider, just one, in the top fifty on this segment that didn't obviously log their time in a vehicle. https://www.strava.com/segments/22063172

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  • I agree.

    It makes user patrol a day after day, repeated task.

    The algorithms to detect and auto flag this are so simple from a programming perspective, it's offensive to me that Strava hasn't shown any progress on this front.  Speed, VAM, or even relative to prior KOM's (the next one might be a few percent more, not triple), adding in checks for real power data and heart rate, etc.

    Strava risks becoming an irrelevant myspace without some very easy, very basic intelligence applied to what is their core function - segments and leaderboards.

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  • We know how frustrating it is when you give a segment your best and think that the crown might be yours. But you head to the leaderboard only to find that the fastest activity seems off, due either to bad GPS data or incorrect activity type.

    We hear you, and we’re working to fix it. Here’s how we’re tackling the issue:

    Identifying incorrect activity type – If an athlete misclassifies their activity (i.e., ride for run, e-bike for bike, etc.), Strava will now suggest that they change the activity type to reduce the amount of miscategorized uploads you encounter on leaderboards.  
    Partial activity exclusion – Strava’s auto-detection tool used to exclude an entire activity if a single segment effort had bad GPS data. We’ve upgraded the tool to enable partial exclusion, so if one segment effort does have lousy data, the rest of the activity will stay intact and remain eligible to compete on other segment leaderboards.  
    Retroactive leaderboard cleanup – Our team is making the effort to check historical leaderboard data so that all efforts you see there are legitimate. But because GPS technology has evolved over the years, scrubbing older activity data warrants different solutions than more recent ones. This work is ongoing.

    We’re committed to fair competition, and to ensuring that segment leaderboards are accurate, reliable and fun. Thanks for your patience as we continue to work toward removing invalid efforts from Strava, and for continuing to help us in flagging the efforts you see that don’t look right. You can continue to do so from the web.

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  • Soren Will users be able to flag individual segment efforts or will this only apply to auto detection? I am sure that most of these erroneous times are honest mistakes, but when you flag a ride very little information is passed back to the athlete. Therefore it is not surprising that they unflag their ride, as the athlete is given minimal information on why the flag is deserved. Perhaps if people flagging were able to include an anonymous message to the athlete it would be clear. Perhaps if when people unflag they could provide an anonymous response explain why they think the flag was invalid?

    I don't think most of these cases are malicious. I think the failure is the total lack of transparency over why rides are flagged and unflagged.

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  • This is amazing, and the first proactive comment I've ever heard from Strava on the issue, much appreciated.

    In your laundry list of items above, please ensure you put some thought to mountain bike DH shuttle and/or lift riders - they don't give a hoot about uphill times, but forget to turn on and off GPS's.  The activity should have a reasonably easy auto detect on partial activity exclusions.

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  • Can you create a page or a folder for not KOM’s but podiums, ie 2nds and 3rds. Makes a user have a list of ones their close to to strive for = the essence and name of Strava.

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  • I 'd like strava work on the exclusion of "somehow truncated gps trace". It would help to keep  leaderboard clean and avoid this ridiculous situation with the comparison feature : https://www.strava.com/segments/21374662/compare/NjUwNzc2NDg0NDYsNjc1NDg1MzcwOTcsNjc1NDg1NDg2MTQsMjc4NzY3Mjk3OTIyMzc5Mjc4NiwyODMwMDQyOTU5NDMzODM3ODc0In this very short segment (200 m)...the itchy points are :

    • The athlete in black (running @5:13/km, far behind on the screenshot) hold, of course, the KOM !
    • None of the pace reported on the segment seems to be below 5:00/km and the average pace of the black athlete is supposed to be 2:10/km

    The run associated with this KOM, doesn't mention the KOM -- I guess the segment has been created later on, so the athlete didn't try to hunt this segment or cheat in any way. Furthermore the athlete have good references, so that at first glance this astonishing performance may be possible, or to the very least flagging it remain questionable. A technical look from strava at the situation may end-up to a wise decision.

    I imagine the comparison feature is a nice tool provided with my subscription to strava...but guess what ? Offering a tool that magnify the lack of curation in the segment leader board question the added value of the subscription to strava.

    As I know that a lot of improvement are on their way, I hope this annoyance will disappear as well. To the very least, I wanted to pinpoint this issue hopefully as a first step toward a fix   !

    Cheers

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  • François, this happens all the time.

    Strava seems to treat the end of the segment as the last point within the segment, even if that point is no where near the end. This leads to ridiculous rounding errors and false KOMs.

    Strava should round times up not down.

    Athletes with good GPS are punished and those with bad GPS are rewarded. 

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  • According to Strava, the start/stop segment timer has a *very* generous radius of uncertainty. I.e.: it is possible to trigger the start of the segment timer 70 meters into the segment and to stop the segment timer 70 m before the end of the segment:

    We always recommend riding through a segment start or end point. If you need to turn around or stop, we recommend avoiding the start or end point by about 70 meters.

    Source: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000248810-Resting-Time-in-Segment-Efforts

    Issues described above seem to apply to very short segments. Imagine the inherent uncertainty in calculating times for a segment that is 150 m long (who creates those, anyways?). Add to the mix: people who record with Strava's app (lol) at a sampling rate of 0,03 Hz (every 30 seconds, but who knows because there is no way to set recording sampling rate in the app.) with coordinates determined by a ping to a cell tower located 5 Km away, and the same joker who keeps stealing my segments by hitting 'start' well into the start of a segment and hitting 'pause' well before the end of a segment.

    I've given up chasing short twisty segments. 

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