Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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  • Hi Alex Michel - I agree with your comments. I see quite a few poorly created Segments where the start is just before a junction, or the end is just after a junction, making it easy for people to join after the start or leave before the end, so resulting in skewed leaderboard data.  This is due to poor Segment creation rather than inauthentic behaviour. I tend to hide such Segments, and maybe create new ones with better start and finish definition.

    I hadn't realised that someone could start an Activity after the start of a Segment (or stop one before the end) and so get unrealistic leaderboard positions.  I suppose this also means Activities could be cropped to achieve the same thing, which would seem inappropriate.  There should be a restriction that a Segment effort is not valid if the Activity beginning or end is within the Segment.

    For what it's worth, the minimum Segment length is 300m for a ride, as I have discovered through trial and error, although there are some shorter legacy ones created a few years ago.

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  • Hi Alex Michel and Ian Barton! Thanks for your feedback on our segment matching process. What you're seeing is a result of the way our algorithm accounts for GPS drift. However, to your point, on segments originally created with spotty/inaccurate GPS, multi-lap segments, or segments that may have tight switchbacks (which will typically cause an overlap of GPS data), our algorithm's GPS drift lenience may cause faulty matches as well. Ian Barton's solution to hide these segments and create new segments with better data is an excellent workaround to see data that better reflects true efforts. We will pass your feedback along to our team for future improvements on segment clean-up!

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  • As someone who is never going to threaten the KOM times I find myself spending most of my time in the age and weight leaderboards. However some of the people who are as old as me are not as fat as me, and some of those that are as fat are not as old. I would like to see a leaderboard for people in both my age and weight category, not just one or the other.

    In fact it would be great if you could create customised leaderboards using all of the flags available in the database. This might solve some of the problems above my allowing you to select bike type, single rides, etc.

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  • You really need to allow rides to be reflagged, the number of people who just ignore the flag is ridiculous. Then having to write up an email to Strava support seems a horrendous waste of time. Basically allow a ride to be reflagged X times (eg 3 or 5), if it gets reflagged that many times, it goes to support who review the points made in the comments when flagged. Then they can disable reflagging or make it permanently private. Therefore the athlete doesn't lose the ride but it doesn't affect anyone else. It would take away a lot of frustration.

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  • 100% agree with M Farlock above.

    There's one persistent e biker in my vicinity who thinks the rules don't apply to categorize rides properly, or just enjoys being obnoxious to non-e bike riders.

    Every time his rides are flagged, he ignores it the maximum number of times before wasting Strava's time by getting it properly flagged.

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/4407764132237

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  • Simple step Strava could make to help prevent leaderboards being saturated with E-bikers: any ride that gets a QOM/KOM or cup gets automatically flagged by Strava. Those of us that chase segments log on straight-away to see what we got and will be very happy to click “Trust me - this is legitimate” as it means we got something. The e-bikers that upload from their Garmin watches and then never log on to change activity will remain flagged without us having to do it manually. I spent around 45min yesterday flagging a whole load that had uploaded in a batch! Grrr. Strava could apply automatic flagging just to non-subscribers on the basis that subscribers understand the system.

    Another idea to throw in: When reviewing rides for flagging, the calculated power histogram is usually pretty clear: both bike types have most time in low power (downhills) so ignore that - 2nd highest category for eBikes is then often the highest power zone, whereas for normal bikes it isn’t- it is more spread around the other zones with 2nd highest often z3/4. I’m in a mountainous area so this may not apply everywhere but would be an easy thing to automatically spot.

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  • Ok! Just seen the post where Strava now suggests politely that an activity might have been on an eBike - NOT GOOD ENOUGH - also needs automatically flagging and exclusion from segments? Currently either their QOM/KOM is still allowed if they never log on and respond OR this algorithm isn’t working else I wouldn’t still be spending so much time flagging…

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  • I am amazed by the number of people worried by rankings of a sport activity not supervised by a referee. There are cheaters everywhere... why should we care about the rankings?

    The only ranking I found interesting is where I can select who make part of it. People I know/trust.

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  • We should be able to flag an athlete, either by a direct button, or automatically if X of his activities are flagged by X many different athletes.

    In this case, all his activities would be flagged in the same time, saving a lot of time for the other users.

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  • I think the automatic assuming it's an e bike is too drastic.  A user should be able to set their default ride type.  Many people have the capacity to regularly get KOM's.  A better solution would be to use algorithms to detect e-bikes - heart rates that never rise above moderate, a pace that stays steady on hills and flats, what % the prior KOM was beat by, realistic VAM ranges, etc.  Their signature should be easy to detect.

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  • When I first started riding the leaderboards were great and helped motivate me to go out and do better every time i went out. I had a series of life events happen that have kept me from riding anywhere close to what i would have liked and find myself in a situation where my previous data seems to be a demotivator when its included on the leaderboards. Without deleting all of my old data or simply looking at this year only on the leaderboard I think it would be helpful for athletes in my situation to be able to temporarily exclude data from leaderboards possibly anything prior to a specified date so that they would be able to see new efforts appear as PR's as they rebuild towards previous heights of fitness. I understand that old data can be set private etc but if you have been a member for years the amount of total activities to manually update could be quite large.

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  • Troy - mark your old rides as private is one way.

     

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  • I want to see more transparency around the flagging of activities. It will increase trust in the leaderboards. This is an issue that has been raised multiple times recently where genuine flags have been incorrectly unflagged.

    Athletes who are trying to help Strava by flagging invalid activities are being frustrated by a lax approach to unflagging.

    When an athlete has their activity flagged they should be able to see the (anonymous) comments that the flagger has contributed.
    This way athletes who have made a genuine mistake will be able to clearly understand WHY the activity has been flagged and take the appropriate action.
    If athletes do not know why they have been flagged they will inevitably just click "this activity is fine".

    If it gets to the stage where Strava Support steps in, it needs to be clear that they have read why the activity has been flagged.
    If Strava Support determine that an activity should be unflagged they should provide feedback to any athlete(s) that have flagged the activity as to why their flag was invalid.
    This would both reassure users that they are being listened to and also help people to understand why a flagged ride was in fact genuine.
    Clearly if it is the case that users are flagging activities incorrectly then providing feedback would help the community.

    If we can teach people to flag and unflag more responsibly then presumably this would also save Strava Support from dealing with tickets on these issues.

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  • I think id create a second account before manually editing over 2000 activities to set them to private. Just Figured I'd put this out there incase strava devs could use it. I'm sure im not the only person who has had a little to much off time and needs a reset of sorts.

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  • Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen!

    I would like to ask you the following question and be glad if you can answer it!

    Sometimes although I make a PB in a segment, strava keeps my previous record when I have look on the leaderboard!

    Do you happen to know why is this so?

    thank you in advance!

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  • I completely agree with Willem O! The woman I flagged last week initially just unflagged everything- so I left a comment in the most recent activity, asking her to reclassify and explaining why I’d flagged her rides. She replied “Ok, thanks!” and did as I’d asked. Obviously despite spending AGES writing comments on each one to justify the flag, as asked in the STRAVA form, this information was not passed on to her and she had NO IDEA what the flagging meant.

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  • Mary The _. - The only reason I can think of would be if the more recent efforts that were a PB were marked as "Private".  If they are private, they won't show up in the leaderboards for segments or challenges.  Other than that, it may just be that the segment database hasn't properly refreshed yet to show your more recent effort.  One thing you could try would be to open the segment detail page where it shows the map and leaderboard.  On the top right (at least for the web verson) there is a little arrow down with the word "Actions" next to it.  Click on that and then click on "Refresh My Results".  I don't think there is an option for this from the mobile app, so you will need to log in from a computer to try.

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  • In response to

    Peter Cajthaml
    October 15, 2020 00:52

    E-BIKES ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT: As Susun Corda says above "leaderboards are one of the most differential features of Strava" and thus make Strava worth paying for the premium membership. Being primarily a mountain biker, I don't experience many problems with drafting or with people not completing the entire segment as described  by some users above. I see E-bikes as the primary threat to Strava as we know it. The leader boards have become polluted with e-bike times disguised as legitimate rides, and this makes the Strava Leaderboards meaningless.  It’s easy to spot the obvious effort when an e-biker takes a KOM on a popular steep climb, and then we can flag it, but what about all the e-bikers that are a bit slower and then go undetected? If this continues, and Strava continues to do nothing about detecting fake e-bike times, I will not renew my premium membership as Strava is losing its main attraction (to me).

    I couldn't agree more and it's the very reason I will never pay for Strava again.

    Leaderboards are broken. If you bought a new product and it was defective in some way, you would get a refund. Leaderboards are now corrupted beyond redemption to the point of being entirely meaningless, so why charge people a fee to use them?

    Strava, that was a rhetorical question!

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  • Here's an idea!

    Persistent cheaters get three strikes and out. If you get three verified flags for cheating the third gets your KOMs permanently deleted and a public ban for a year.

    Harsh? Maybe. Fair? Totally.

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  • Thank you indeed for your help and your replies. It was finally fixed and the leaderboard was refreshed after some time. Your comments were helpful indeed. Keep on training, guys!

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  • Replying to Mike Strong above.

    hard to banish them as customers, but their account could be switched to just not having rides log on leaderboards.

    Great commentary otherwise!

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  • With regards to e-bikes and leaderboards, I think if Strava could do something about that, they would already have addressed the problem. I think unfortunately there isn't an easy solution.

    First of all, I think many eBikers are ignorant about segments. There are probably some that go and intentionally take segments but I think most of them have no idea. Cycling is one of the default sports on Strava, so that's what they use. They do cycle after all.

    Even if Strava created an eBike sport, do you think any of these eBikers would go and change their every ride type? They wouldn't unless that is somehow done automatically.

    Furthermore many of them probably record their rides with Garmin devices or other smartwatches, and those don't have eBike sports either.

    The only possible solution for Strava is to somehow recognize eBike activities automatically on upload. But that is far from trivial and probably requires some sort of machine learning algorithm which would look at variation of speed vs. grade. But I think it would be hard to make it reliable, and it works probably cause more issues than it solves.

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  • Stanislav C.

    You've already pointed out several really low hanging fruit.

    1) Change defaults, when a new user selects ride you could explicitly ask if it is an eBike or not.

    2) Changing ride type would only be an issue for historic activities, a really easy solution that requires no input on the part of the eBike user would be when users flag "wrong activity type" have a drop down to select the correct type. Perhaps even have a discreet option purely for eBike if that is the most common mistake?

    3) Strava does have an algorithm already, I think it just needs to be more aggressive. If Strava accidentally thought one of my rides was on an eBike I would take it as a compliment.

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  • Stanislav C. - Strava does already have an e-bike category/sport that people can select when saving their activities.  A lot of the e-bikers either don't know about it or are just too lazy to make the change each time they ride.  I do think it could be greatly improved if Strava could make it an option to be set as the default activity since I think most people who ride e-bikes, only ride e-bikes and not a mix of traditional and e-bikes.  By having a default option, you would not have the cases where someone either forgot to edit the activity type or just hasn't had a chance to yet before the leaderboards get updated.

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  • Hi. Is it possible to put a time limit to a segment. Our segment is changing a lot trough the year, and the track we start with isn´t the same next summer.

    Best regard Tommy

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  • Hi Stanislav C. In Garmin Edge devices, you can assign eBike or eMTB to each profile and the activity gets properly uploaded as eBike Ride to Strava.

    To me, as I described at the very beginning of the thread, a solution could be to unify the segments into a single database use the same sport for all and make separated leaderboards for each bike type (road, mtb, gravel and their electric versions). If you don't have your bike declared in Strava you don't get into any leaderboard.

    Cheaters will be around anyway but at least we could reduce the number of people who upload the wrong activity type inadvertently and break leaderboards.

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  • I think it's a pity that there is no indication of the age in the ranking of the segments. When you are 40/50/60 years old and you manage to appear in the top 25, I think it is an achievement and deserves to be highlighted. There should be an additional field for age in the ranking line. Also, in the segment presentation, the best times and names by age category should be shown.

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  • Some time ago, Strava made full segment leaderboards unavailable for free users.

    As a "non-athlete" with my tiny activity, I cannot justify it as an expense. When segments were fully available for all users, I had motivation to prepare quality traces and add nice segments. That motivation disappeared.

    I cannot judge whether Strava gains more from limited segment functionality, but if segments were returned - they might get a bit more quality community contributions from users like me :)

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  • I managed to beat two KOMs today and they appeared in my activity (although only after refreshing), thay are not visible in my KOM list. I also am no. 1 on the all-time leaderboards, but previous KOM owners are still visible in the "fastest times" section of these segments. Any ideas why that's happening? Do these need time to be refreshed? 

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  • Michał K. I had a similar problem with a KOM I got yesterday and a friend had one they got this morning. About 3 hours after my friend's KOM this morning, both of ours converted from the PR icon to the crown and showed up on our list. Apparently Strava is having issues with the behind the scenes processing. If I had to guess, I'd say your's will likely appear within 24-48 hours.

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