Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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Opmerkingen

73 opmerkingen
  • Time to time I see ebikers ( confirmed ebikers with stats better than a pro tour cyclist) recording on normal riders segment. I first nicely ask them to record on proper category but some are really selfish and don't care and keep on doing it. and when confronted they block me to avoid being seen. I have created new accounts to be able to flag their rides and maybe they change their behavior. But after multiple flags, my flagging option is inactive. seems like strava allows me to flag one person only 6-7 times?!! while they ride 5 times a week. I don't like to stalk someone on strava but hard to avoid it when I see the ebiker on all segment leaderboards around our city and area.
    Just think of this: most cycling computers have training and recording tool. we use strava for it's comparison tool vs friends and local riders. With these ebikers if you don't let us to clean up the site from fake recordings there is no reason to use strava especially it's paid subscription service.
    This is an huge issue that we can not reach you to report a bad user. Yes! I can show the proof they use ebike and not wrongfully accusing someone. I know you can not police everyone but the least , please don't restrict us to flag ebikers.

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  • Peter Cajthaml The Strava community cancer are fake athletes flooding Strava forum with his hateful words, complain about loosing KOM they never won, during activities they never did, because of guys who don't exist.

    I ride every months with a group of national XC riders at speed between 25-45 km/h. They always waiting me, including on climb. This is not possible to win KOM with an ebike against these real athletes. e-bike cheating is a problem for the bottom of the leaderboard, or on few segments with 20-30% climbing. Easy to report.

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  • Remove the artificial limit to sync max 100 live segemnts on Garmin devices:

    • Strave users are asking for this since more than 5 years
    • It's my device, my storage, my choice! If I want a thousand segments on my Garmin unit and reduce the available storage for courses and activities, that's my choice!
      BTW 100 segments consume only 874Kb on a Edge 820
    • Wahoo devices do not have this this artificial restriction of 100 live segments. Why Garmin users treated worse?
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  • @Sylvain - If you guys are averaging 25-45 km/h, then you must be riding flat or downhill hardpacked roads.  Nobody, not even pro riders average those speeds on actual mountain bike trails.  Maybe you could hit toward the upper end on a good downhill section of a course, but that would be only select locations.  I could see someone averaging the lower end of that, maybe 25 km/h or up to around 30km/h during races on some courses, but in that range, e-bikes would be providing additional power (most assist up to about 32 km/h or so) which means by default, an equal rider on an e-bike will be faster than one on a standard mountain bike.  Trying to claim good riders are averaging up to 45 km/h on mountain bikes is just showing how little you actually know about what you are talking about.  Bottom line, if you put the same rider on an e-bike and then on a regular bike over the same segment/course, they will almost always put up a faster time on the e-bike except for a few unique courses such as downhill or highly technical courses where the weight of the bike makes a noticeable difference.  

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  • Strava needs to run a program over leaderboards every week to remove erroneous times. By this I mean all the times that have the average speed greater than the maximum speed - an impossibility. Bellow is one of many examples;

                  AVG        MAX

    Speed 63.6km/h 58.7km/h
    Cadence 0 0
    Heart Rate — 0 bpm
    Est Power 545W —
    Elev Diff 24m

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  • Oh my God!!!
    Can't believe my previous post where I explained that it was a no sense INDIVIDUAL riders are in the same leaderboard with riders in GROUP activity (drag benefit, reliefs...and professional pelotons) got up to -3 votes!!!

    Really?

    I can't understand how people can feel fine if got a KOM riding in group against a solo rider...
    Sure the same people with e-bikes getting MTB KOMs against people with normal bikes, or cheating in Zwift.

    Well, that's the reason why Strava is doing nothing this years.
    So a good slogan could be: "Strava, the home of cheating" where you can think your performance is just as you only can dream, so you can reach many achievements.

    Real good and honest athletes maybe are minority and cheaters are much more, so if Strava a business, no need to explain anything more.

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  • I'm new to strava and I got something called "CR" but there is no place anywhere that says what it is.  Can a legend for stuff like this be put somewhere?

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  • I previously mentioned a problem with editing the titles of segments I have created.  The Strava support team have now fixed this problem 😀

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  • @jaso As usual, you change my words and promote pathetic fake infos.

    #1, On enduro tracks, with the same skill, e-bike are faster on common downhill, slower on DoubleBlack downhill, so so on flat, could be faster or slower on climb depending of the ground status and the IMBA level. So clearly, enduro and ebike are not your skill. *
    #2, I already said to you some months ago USA ebike definitions is a USA problem. The world doesnt care you classify hybrid e-motorbike as an ebike. ebike is a bike, not a motorbike. There is only one dumb country in the world who doesnt understand this. Accept the result.
    #3 If you are slower than an ebike (limited to 25km/h) on all your XC segment, you have a problem. *

    Stop to generalize some exceptions. Suggest solutions.

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  • Please develop an AI which automatically flags run activities with "wring activity type" when they are clearly rides (or drives when the athlete forgets to stop the recording). I wanted to flag activities at a segment, and after two dozens I'm nowhere near the end of it. I still see "runners" with 1minute per mile speed on the leaderboard. Only machines can deal with that many outliers.

    I'm a software engineer, so I can help with the ML heuristics for this if needed.

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  • @David Jones
    Average speed greater than max speed is the problem created by Strava's faulty segment matching algorithm. We should blame Strava for that and they have to improve the algorithm.

    The max speed comes from the actual speed entries during the segment. The average speed comes from the segment length divided by the difference of timestamps between the segment start and the segment end. Sounds correct, right? The problem is that the matched segment start and end points are not exactly at the segment start and end, and may each be well within the segment. Strava makes no effort to estimate exactly when you crossed segment start and end. Instead they just pick whatever points on your GPS track that ended up being the closest to those two points. If one uses smart recording on their device, points on the recorded track may be up to 6 -8 seconds apart. That means that when Strava matches a segment, if that person is lucky, their segment time may be several seconds shorter than it was actually, but Strava would still use that shorter time to calculate their average speed with the full segment length.

    The only solution to correct that is to use interpolation between points to find matching start and end more accurately.

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  • Nordic Skiing: Differentiate Skate & Classic - because skate skiing is a much faster technique than classic, it is very difficult for a classic skier to make a Nordic segment leaderboard. Suggestion: When starting a workout and choosing an activity, break Nordic Ski into its two disciplines: Nordic Ski - Skate, and Nordic Ski - Classic. They could share the same segments but have different leaderboards. If not possible to share the same segments, then allow Classic to begin creating new segments for that discipline. Thanks!

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  • Totally agree with Andy S about having sub categories for classic versus skate skiing.

    Similarly road riding solo versus in a group with a draft.

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  • Suzanne Garner - CR = Course Record (fastest overall time posted for that segment).  It is the equivalent of a KOM or QOM (King of the Mountain or Queen of the Mountain) for cycling.  PR = Personal Record.  

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  • Susun Corda - I don't think the negative votes were associated with the concept you presented.  They are more likely associated with the understanding that there is no good way to separate solo and group rides.  Strava's algorithm is terrible and should not be used in any way.  It thinks anyone who happens to be in the same vicinity for a while is part of the same group.  Even if you could get everyone from now on to indicate whether it was a group or solo ride themselves (you never would, but just hypothetically let's say you did), you wouldn't be able to correct the 10+ years of rides already in the database, so your leaderboards would already be messed up from that.  I like the idea of separating them, but only if it was done from day one.  Now, it is too late to change unless you reset everything which would take a lot of legitimate KOMs away from people .  This is very similar to the issues raised about separating road and MTN biking.  It would make sense to do IF it was done from the start.  Now, there are millions of rides already logged that do not have the proper designation one way or the other, so the results in the leaderboards would be a mess.  

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  • Please could we have age group awards. A Gold, Silver and Bronze with 55+ etc. Not a top 10 as this could get a bit cluttered, but a top three award on the activity page would be nice. I'd like to have the incentive to still be riding in 30 years time.

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  • I have very much appreciated how leaderboards were organized and viewed on the Strava app before the recent update. No longer are the little charts that show where you place overall to the right of "All Time", "This Year", "Today", etc.  I would really love to see that come back because it makes it very simple to see how I did on any given segment very quickly and without doing math to tell what percentile I'm in.

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  • An enthusiastic "Agreed!" with Matt to return to the previous leaderboard presentation!

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  • Graeme McDonald, Age group awards are a great idea. 

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  • Jason Lamoreaux

    I understand what you say.

    But maybe Strava programmers can detect the "all time" group rides (at least the most evident) easily, just as we can do it.

    When you see various riders in a leaderboard at the same date with the same (or very close) time for a segment, is easy to know they were a group, even when they have enabled the feature "privacy for group rides" in their activities.

    Well, professional unfair cheaters (I know some of them), can do group reliefs and only one rider keep public the activity (te "team leader") and the other riders (gregarious in the "team") do it private... ridiculous but they even do this.

    But, at least, professional pelotons of races would be filtered...

    It's not fair groups are in the same leaderboard with solo efforts.
    It's a major cause o disappointment when people looking for challenges in solo rides that can be quite boring.
    Challenges, is just a main motivation for paying for Strava segments.

    But, if Strava knows this (for sure) and do nothing is because there are more people enjoying the fact of achieve top 10 or KOMs with the help of group reliefs with drag benefit.

     

     

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  • I'm entirely confused about flagging. I've recently been flagging obvious shuttle car-riders who 1) specifically title their rides with the word shuttle and/or; 2) those which obviously are in cars with avg/ max speeds so high (like 14+ avg / 25-39 max) on 8-14% uphill gravel grades that even pros could not sustain at those lengths. Why am I then getting "temporarily disabled" flagging ability?  I'm then unable to flag these clear & obvious cheats for at least 24 hrs it appears. 

    Clearly Strava's "algorithm" doesn't work because several top 10 athletes w/ heart meters posting great times on the entire road (clearly earned) are then beaten mercilessly on uphill sections by 10-20 times the speed by obvious car riders. I realize Strava staff aren't reading this or seemingly concerned at all about the forum (which is confusing) - I've had several open tickets for almost a month now on obvious, simple issues they won't even reply to - so do any humans out there have any insight on this since Strava doesn't support their product too much? 

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  • It would be nice, when filtering leaderboards, to have the option to see "that day" as a filter, rather than only "today". For example, it would be nice to look back on a group ride or event, and see who was fastest on the actual day of the activity.

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  • If Segment is made from multiple laps of a loop the best consecutive attempt should be used as PR

    If there is a segment that is for example 5 laps around a mile loop and an attempt is made by riding for example 8 laps Strava will use the first 5 lap as the best effort even if the middle 5 or last 5 laps of the 8 were the fastest effort. It would be more useful/accurate if Strava recorded time for each set of 5 consecutive laps to determine the best time for the 5 lap segment.  That way if you warm up on the first lap then hammer for 5 more the last five will be the PR instead of using the first 5 including the warm up lap as the PR and ignoring the last fast lap as it does currently.

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  • I’m with Peter. If something isn’t done to differentiate an Ebike from a non-electric powered bike, I’m dropping my premium membership. I’m not paying $60 year to see my KOMs taken by Ebike riders.

     

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  • @ Stanislav C.

    Thanks for the explanation. When I go in and compare others with my times were there average is 5 to 6km greater than the max speed, I notice that; 1. They are travelling significantly slower than me throughout the segment and;2. They don't travel as far - they may start 50 to 100m into the segment and finish 75m from the end. Not really good enough 

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  • I ask Strava if it is possible to create a new segment leaderboard, in addition to those for age and gender etc., only for those who ride with an ebike. Those who ride with an ebike would not be present in the other segment leaderboards, but only in the ebike one. This would avoid creating the existing segments agai

    I think it is not appropriate to duplicate the existing segments in order to create a leaderboard for those who use an eBike. I created a lot of segments myself when I used my human-powered bike and I wouldn't want to create them again using eBike.

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  • Following choice no long shows up the day after you ride.

    Why not? I find this feature useful.

    It now only show all time and all time this year. They say after you ride.

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  • Sharing segments makes sense for other sports too, for example running vs. hiking vs. walking. For example on hiking trails parallel sets of segments exist for hiking vs. running (trail running), and for uphill segments the results are actually not that different. Yes, it would still make sense to have separate leaderboards but the segments themselves should be shared.

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  • @David Jones

    Yes, Strava makes no effort to guarantee that everyone travels the same distance. Those users who use higher resolution devices that write data every second tend to produce more consistent results with distances much closer to the actual segment distances. Those users who use lower resolution devices depend on luck - they may end up matching to 100-150 m different distances either way. But we tend to notice only those who got lucky and matched a shorter than actual distance.

    The solution is fairly straightforward - Strava needs to look at points on the track before and after the point that they match to a segment start and finish and interpolate finding a shortest possible distance. Then adjust the time proportionally. That would be much more accurate than whatever arbitrary point that match for segment start / finish. Also that would allow to filter out cases when someone starts a segment late or turns around 50-75 meters before finishing a segment - something that I've seen on uphill running segments many times. The current algorithm allows users to cheat - either intentionally or unintentionally.

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