Designate between a "Group" and a "Solo" ride on Strava

This would allow Strava cyclists to tag a ride as a group ride or a solo ride, and also be able to sort segment leaderboards by those filters.

 

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Comentários

375 comentários
  • I'm interested in my personal data. PR's in a group setting means that I hung on well. PR's SOLO means I'M improving. So it would be great to filter/sort between the two. I guess I could create a GROUP persona (account) and a SOLO account, but that's more work then if Strava provided the solo/group flag and PRs in each situation.

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  • This would be a great feature

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  • yes -> solo, small, medium& large group

     

    then people can misuse it but having that as a filtering option would still be a nice feature !

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  • Holy shit. I can't believe I read through (most) of this. I have to say, I agree with Steve W on this and am shocked that it seems to be so far in the minority. Group ride or solo? Are you going to filter weather conditions as well? Well this guy had a 12 mph tail wind on segment X, Y and Z so that does not count....give me a break. Strava does give me motivation, and that is its main objective I believe. I don't race, and rarely do group rides. Occasionally ride with 1 or 2 others. I am on page 11 of kom's so that's a little over 200 that I have now. I would say 90% of my kom's are solo. I pride myself on getting them solo, and on group rides I don't usually go for the segments. In the end remember "Merckx was better than you"
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  • I like comparing my times to pros even tho I am twice there age. It's amazing what some gifted athletes can accomplish.
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  • Well, Greg, let me just acknowledge your studliness. You have a roomful of KOM's that you got solo... even beating the group guys. It doesn't surprise me that you don't see what the big deal is. Everybody's behind you. If you were only measured against other people riding solo, they'd *still* all be behind you.

    What I'd suggest you consider is that you don't know what it's like to be one of us who didn't win the genetic lottery. It takes a lot of effort and determination just to claw our way up to a respectable place among those who benefit from generous physiological benefits, and it would be nice if our efforts were diminished further by those who benefit from generous aerodynamic benefits.

    In my case, if I go out and put in a reasonable amount of training and manage to get in the top 25% of the leaderboard, then I feel like the training is paying off and it motivates me to take my training even more seriously. On the other hand, when I go out and ride and train and then can't even crack the top 50% because it's full of the guys who ride 15 in a pack, then how much further would increased training help me... really? I wouldn't expect this situation to be understood by somebody who can just hop on his bike and smoke all of the groups he sees on the road.

    As far as considering weather conditions, this has been answered before. Weather conditions aren't an either/or thing, and they also aren't something which is completely known just from the ride itself and it's also not something which is consistent through a whole segment effort. Wind can change during a segment. However, with drafting, either you were drafting on part of the segment or your weren't.

    Group-vs-solo is less like tailwind-vs-headwind and more like male-vs-female. It's a undeniable advantage which doesn't change during a segment. So, if you're going to argue against a solo-only leaderboard, then you're also arguing against a women's leaderboard. You say that a unified leaderboard just means more glory when a solo guy beats all of the group riders. Well, then you're also saying, in effect, that women shouldn't have their own leaderboard and it just means more bragging rights if they manage to beat all of the men.

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  • Thank you again Joe. It seems the 'groupies' don't remember the old saying I've probably misquoted here, "embrace the things you can control and focus less on the things you can't" .... ie- the other sex, the naturally gifted or people determined to cheat, I cant compare myself to or control. Group riders however ARE in a class of their own which could be sorted with a click(s) of a button. I can't see the issue with wanting to make a solo rider manually select their REAL PR as having gone alone, (regardless of how they got to the start of the segment). If I am interested in checking out how they got there, I can view their ride, (and 'rode with' listing), in an attempt to fathom their brilliance or degree of assistance. I could even look at the wind history if determined to gauge assistance but these are things the groupies don't have to bother with aren't they? The groupies are the ones who CLAIM to be less interested in KOMs and using the Strava leader board as motivation anyway. The "too many segments to click on nowadays" issue may pop up again and I agree with this. What about, "only >30second and/or >400m segments" having leader boards?- (my cut off numbers to be altered perhaps?). That way, GPS errors and hundreds of near meaningless segments can be discounted from data processing & clicks.

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  • The thread that just won't die.

    It's practically a religious/political debate in here. Let's all remember that at the end of the day, Strava is just a tool. We rode bikes before Strava and still managed to find ways to get motivated and improve.

    Since there's not a clear answer/consensus on this matter and there are clearly some complexities in group vs solo designations for a whole ride, it most likely won't be implemented.

    Most of the KOMs in my area were taken on windy days, and in many cases were solo efforts anyway. I rarely get KOMs anymore because I don't ride often enough to take advantage of favorable conditions.

    I'd hate to see erroneous or misleading ride designations more than not seeing them at all. You'd still end up doing what we do now to validate-- drill down to the rides on segment efforts and look at the details. Point is, it's difficult to say exactly what the advantage may have been on any given segment (if any). Accept that fact, appreciate the simplicity of the Strava leaderboard, and leave it at that.
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  • @ Billy- but Billy, it's not difficult to reduce the "drilling down", simplify the representation of results whilst making them more meaningful at the same time if this function is introduced. Just unsubscribe if you've had enough and we can keep discounting the objectors with reason.

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  • My interest in the solo/group designation is to compare my own rides, since I repeat segments a lot. I care less about where I am vs the rest of the world. My current workaround is to add a SOLO bike to my stable. I haven't tried to filter using the bike type yet. But at least the information is captured so I don't forget.

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  • Thanks Joe E, If I lived in Boulder CO or San Diego I would not be anywhere close to the top of a leader board. So I guess my perspective is from my own little corner of the world I ride in. With your same reasoning on drafting, either you had a tail wind or you did not. What am I missing here? I never mentioned the women's leader board. Don't twist my words and try to morph my point into something ridiculous. That will just lead people to speculate about your political affiliation.
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  • Greg, here in the SF bay area, you see segments with thousands of individual riders on them.   Its pretty easy in some regions to build up pages of KOMs (veloviewer scores are helpful).  Here, every single KOM on any competitive segment (more than 200 riders) is done without a headwind.  It is impossible to get a significant KOM riding into the wind due to the number of powerful riders here.  But drafting is unlike a tailwind, in that other riders can pull for you in any direction (wind has direction..).  This is a huge benefit.  A team time trial with always be faster than an individual time trial even if that individual has a tailwind.  This is not even debatable.  But tailwinds are simply not discriminatory. Anyone riding that day/week or whenever that wind is occurring has the opportunity to take advantage of it.  That wind pattern will occur again.  Its not like the rider who KOMs had some unique tailwind that is a once in a lifetime occurrence unavailable to other riders.

    I think the mention of the womens leader board is the analogy that comparing a solo ride to a group ride is like comparing men to women.  Men have an advantage over women much like group rides have over solo. 

    Stephen D.'s solution is pretty cumbersome but workable.  I also would like to filter my own times by solo/group simply because I put no value on group times.

     

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  • Joe, one point that you make is that if you get into the top 25% of a KOM list, then you believe your training is paying off.  As everyone else has said - there are some segments where you could go straight into the top 10% - and there are others that you might never get into the top 50%

    However, if you look at your own times over the years on a segment, if your training is paying off, you'll see those times getting faster, as an overall trend (individual rides might be slower, because you were tired, ill, or 100 other reason).  THAT is the key indication of whether your training is paying off.

    Please, stop using the Strava KOM tables as anything more than a bit of fun. Just because you're #10 in the list, doesn't mean you're the 10th fastest person to have ever ridden that segment.

    I could actually go into a LOT of detail about how segment times can be wrong (on a technical level), how KOM tables can be wrong, how all the other things there are can affect KOM tables.  It's for FUN. Nothing more.

    If you want to compare yourself with other cycles, get out and ride with other cyclists. If you want to see how your personal performance is changing, look at your own historical data.  Just don't use KOM tables as a way of measuring yourself.  How are you going to feel if a faster *solo* rider does your segment, and you go down in the ranking?  Will you be thinking "oh, my training isn't working, I'm getting slower". No, of course it doesn't. It just means that someone better than you has just ridden it, and uploaded to Strava.  That's it. Nothing more.

    If you want to track your own training progress, do that. Track your *own* progress.

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  • I don't care if other people show up on the leaderboards if they were riding with a group (there's no way *everyone* would check a box), but I'd like to know if I'm improving or not.  I'd like to see a way to not count a ride toward the leaderboards...sort of 'private' or 'noncompetitive', so it will still count toward my mileage.  I don't care if other people can see the ride, but I don't want to be on a leaderboard if I didn't really earn it.  (Not to mention, I would probably never break my own record, if it was made with a group.)

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  • Strava is fine the way it is. Steve and  Jerry and co are correct.  There is no simple way to correct this and no need to. If Strava forced a group ride criteria teams could support one rider, turn their GPS off, etc. etc. There is no solution that is purely accurate so who cares. Usually the KOM of a flat segment is the one who caught the best tail wind anyway. Good on them. If you ride the same route every day you will probably get that wind too.  At some point 30km/hr wind will hit every segment.

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  • Yeah, I have lots of KoM where I had a crazy tail wind, or I got lucky and drafted a truck, or just got in with a really fast group and was a little more aggressive at just the right time.

    Still, I think it would be useful to be able to tag whether the ride was done with a group, or alone, More info is always better than less info.

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  • I totally agree with the original suggestion. 

    Sometimes I ride in a peloton with my club, and sometimes I ride solo. The problem is that my PRs for any given segment are always measured simply as the fastest times. Of course, I’m much faster in the group which means that I’m less motivated to push myself when riding alone (since I know I won’t be able to get a PR on the same segments).

    I agree that Strava add a way for users to indicate whether a ride was solo vs group, and then to measure PRs separately.

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  • It seems Strava are more interested in creating challenges and badges than solving this real issue for us all. If they are not going to make a different leader board, (which would appear to be relatively easy considering the categories already available and the software power available), then they should at least display the "Ride Title" &/or "other riders" already indicated, in the "my results" and leaderboards. This would, at a glance, give us an indication for a good time. If I get a good time, I'll always mention the prevailing breeze so my followers know and I can be proud of a better time as I improve the next time. As many have said, "any improvement, however imperfect, will be great".

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  • I agree with Steve Weixel - fastest is fastest, quit whining

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  • @ Tom Baker- another person to ask to unsubscribe if you can't accept the arguments FOR change outweigh those against. Leave it to the people tapping on Stravas bullet proof window please. The objectors seem to think any advantage is fine .... pack, wind, truck ..... bungee cord or electricity perhaps? Learn to control the things you can, (like utilising automatic software), and forgo the things you cant, (like honesty, wind and bike cost). It seems most objectors are the more dedicated, competitive, racing, pack types so surely you have other ways to gauge yourselves & don't need this app to ferret through so what's the issue for you?..... Scared your 'honesty' will be highlighted? Why oppose something many would simply like to be able to compare to the people they follow & know the sorts of rides they engage in- and their honesty?.... plus associated ride title or comment. My earlier suggestion requested the title be displayed WITH the leaderboards to provide instant knowledge of ride variety and adding a check box such as "group" or "part group" would be another way to simplify the upload task you seem to think is onerous. Much like there is a "commute" option currently.

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  • This might have been covered in the many pages of discussion but solo vs group is not enough either.  Think about the scenario where a rider is led out for a quarter mile and then finishes off the next quarter mile of the segment.  That is a lot of effort put out by the ride when they are out on their own, I would consider a group classification to sitting in or a fast moving rotating paceline.   

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  • This feature is utterly pointless.  

    Everyone would have to go back through all their rides and designate Group or Solo, otherwise all segments would have to start with a clean slate.  Never going to happen.

    Racers draft in races, and team leaders (or, the Team's Fastest Rider) do the least amount of time in the wind.  So a team training ride runs through your segments, and you'll never see the top 25.  Get over it, the variances in data captured with a Garmin/iPhone/Android are in excess of one second, so a group ride smoking through a segment ins't even accurate anyway.

    For a sport that's supposed to be deep in toughness, there sure are a lot of people who complain about not having any KOMs, and come up with the stupidest feature request to make getting one easier.  Just go ride your bike faster.....

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  • I'm not even worried about leader board sorting- I just want to be able to track *my* solo efforts without seeing the group rides in there. 

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  • Eric E- 'we' are not necessarily chasing KOMs Eric, just wanting to compare to our 'followees/followeres' plus ourselves, WITH essential information about how the result was obtained. I would gladly go back and do a simple single click on rides I knew were solo but if that seems too onerous for you then we get to assume you did it with assistance. I know 'what is what' because of the name I put  on a ride or the route/distance. This is because I care about the effort I myself put in on a ride. You say, "just ride faster", yet riding faster in a group means you are leaching off others' abilities just as heading out on a downbreeze windy day assists, (another label I put on my rides with any 'achievements'). You talk about toughness yet desire being 'comforted' in a pack to be the same as leading all the way.... who's tougher?

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  • segments are bad for the group rides, and group rides are bad for the segments! something needs to be done!

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  • Yes please
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  • It's also frustrating for me as a female rider who rides on my own to see so many other females up the leaderboards who have ridden with a group of male friends.  It must make it so much easier to tuck in and get dragged along to some great times.

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  • When will folks understand, Strava Segments are not Individual Time Trials?  

    Cycling as a group is all about drafting and working together, and time trials are individual efforts.  When Strava changes the name from "Segment" to "Time Trial" this discussion will make sense.  People want filters to filter group rides out of a segment to see themselves at the top of a leader board, but basic group etiquette following riders have to deal with wheel suckers drafting a pack, only to jump that pack near the end of segment for some personal Strava PR, disrupting the group.

    There are abusers of all fashions, and people should get over it, and ride to their ability.

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  • Nobody said strava is a team sport... And the word segment has correlation to a group or solo. This is a pointless discussion.
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  • I'm ROFL about the disrupting the group with a Strava PR attempt.  How many group rides don't have a flyer off the front at some point in time?  Competitive cycling, and Strava is competitive, is all about pushing limits, who wants to be sheep and just stay in your designated spot/pace?  This thread has been going for years now so I don't expect to see much change on it soon.  

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