Manually add Training Load to activities for Fitness & Freshness graph

It would be very helpful to be able to add manual TSS estimates to rides. I live in a pretty brutal winter climate and don't risk bringing my crank-mounted power meter on some of the more snow-ridden, submerged, occasionally airborne training rides I do in the winter, so when I return from a 5 hour frostbitten epic I don't really have a good assessment of what the effect on my fatigue/fitness would be. It'd be handy to be able to punch in some kind of guess so I can better keep track of my fitness curves. Just a thought.

 

Thanks!

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  • Yes, this was finally released today! 

    You will now see estimated values for training impulse based on your heart rate data/sufferscore. This estimation is based on the relationship of training load and your sufferscore. 

    You can view your F&F graph for the combined Heartrate monitor and Power meter, or each of the data types separately. Namely, if you ride a bike without a power meter, Strava will now fill in the gaps by estimating your training impulse using HR data. 

    Let me know if you have any questions! 

    Strava_Fitness_Freshness.jpg

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  • Hi Elle,

    That's great, and it is very helpful.  I can already see that my F&F graph is more like I expect, with the missing numbers (from when my PM was stolen) filled in.

    I don't mean to nitpick - however what we're asking for in this particular thread is the ability to override Training Load manually (whether we override PM derived score, or HR derived score).  There are a few good reasons to want to do this: First, I don't use my HR or PM when I race, but they are substantial efforts that I'd like to have tracked in F&F.  Second, there can be rides where either HRM or PM might fail or give bogus data, and a manually overridden value might be closer to the truth.  Finally - I am a little suspect of the Training Load values that are coming out of the HR estimates, and I believe I can do better with my own estimate in some cases*.  Again, I'm not being negative on the ability to use HR to estimate Training Load, that's great and it'll do for my bulk of rides without PM data.  But we also see it as essential, if the F&F feature is to be useful and held up against TrainPeaks, that we have to ability to override inputs into the F&F data.

     

    * Here are 2 rides that were similar in time, distance, nature, effort, intensity, average speed, and average HR.  One was done before I recovered my PM, and one was done after.  They are separated by 2 weeks in time.  The Training Load estimated in the non-PM ride (http://www.strava.com/activities/195402636/overview) is 90 (note that the estimated Training Load doesn't show up on the activity's page, you have to go to F&F to see it; it would be nice to have a field for Estimated Training Load on the activity page) and the Suffer Score is 76.  The Training Load (from PM) for the PM ride (http://www.strava.com/activities/201551969/overview) is 141, and the Suffer score is 84.  So while the Suffer Score says that the PM ride was approx. 10% "harder", the Training Load is approx 56% higher for the PM ride.  Again, this is no big deal, I appreciate that there is a lot of inference that has to go into estimating TSS from HR.  However, this is an example where I'd like to override the estimated Training Load, to get better representation in the F&F graph.

    Thanks,

    Rich

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  • I agree with Rich Greieve.  Although this is a step in the right direction, it is not what we asked for. 

     

    Let's say I go out of town and sit on a spin bike for an hour and do some intervals. I don;t have any heart rate or other data to download.  Or, as happened to me recently, my Garmin crapped out and was replaced under warranty, causing me to lose data for five workouts including a hard century and a long race.  Not only are these workouts lost, but the F and F is not accurate going forward. for weeks to come. What we really want is to be able to estimate the training load and just plug it in as a method of last resort, either instead of or in addition to the latest solution.. 

     

    in any event,. thanks for listening to your customers.

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  • Yes, @Rich and @Jeff - 

    I completely understand, and I apologize for not communicating this better in my first post! 

    This feature suggestion still stands as valid and has not yet been implemented by Strava. It is still something worth considering, and clearly a feature that many users would like to see on Strava. 

    I simply meant to pass along news of a related feature suggestion that HAD been released! 

    Please keep the support and comments coming in regard to the original feature suggestion proposed here. Thanks! 

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  • +1. F&F needs manual input option, otherwise even small glitches in power data (battery dies, connect issues) seriously skews the curve.

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  • Attached is an example of a ride needing manual input. Note that Weighted Average Power is shown as 1watt for 70 miles due to connection issue with power meter. Impulse for this ride is shown as 0 (zero), and the exact same ride a few weeks prior has training impulse of 310. A week later my power meter battery died halfway through another ride- training impulse is shown as 300 where the same ride registered almost 400 a few weeks prior. The very next week I had other issues over multiple rides rides while dialing in new power meters until the problems were finally fixed. These few power meter issues lost an estimated 700-800 impulse points over a 2 week period, which greatly affects the curve for ALL DATA following.

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  • Great improvement!

    I have only heart rate on the bike, so until now only trainer sessions were used on the F&F graph. Thanks!

    For making this usable for multisporters you could 

    1) use Heart rate based TSS when possible for other activities; runs, nordic ski,   - etcetera

    2) Manually enter RPE for the acitivity, do some calculation with the duration time and come up with a TSS; for swim, crossfit - etcetera 

     

    And for the visualization you add a column with all activity types recorded in your history where you tick the boxes for the types of activity you want to use for calculation of the F&F graph.

     

    Lastly, add a zooming feature. I have several years of data now making it hard to make historic comparition, zooming in eg. summer 2012 would be nice.

     

     

     

    Is it just cycling at the moment ?I see There are several activit

    http://www.strava.com/activities/211437835/overview

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  •  I simply don't get the lack of a manual edit.  

     After successfully using the Fitness&Freshness graph with Power & HR data to peak for UCI cyclocross races, my HR strap blew out on a weekend of races, so I have no Fit/Fresh data for this weekend.  A manual edit would allow me to move on and use the graph to complete the season with data; now the fit/fresh curve has become useless.  I can understand the wait to implement HR based TSS estimates and the result is a great step forward .  I simply don't get the lack of a manual edit.  

     

    Does anyone know if there's a way to edit a Garmin file to change the date so I could import that as a "similar" effort?  If I have to move to cycling analytics for a manual entry which I could use for when I can't get power/HR, or for a run, I certainly won't be moving back to Strava premium.

     

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  • Steve, I shook my head already multiple times in disbelieve about Strava's inability to spend what seems a small effort to fix this bug that renders the prime training graph useless. Golden Cheetah allows you to edit your ride record and re-import it into Strava. Holger
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  • definately need this feature before I can justify going premium. training load base on HR for all activities, with manual entry option (i.e input an average HR, and have a training impulse calculated). Fitness & freshness graph useless without this.

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  • I agree with all the posts that say that the fitness freshness feature is useless if you cannot manually estimate in missing data.

    Workaround 

    1) Export an activity as GPX

    2) open the file in a text editor and change (at it simplest - just copy a ride of similar effort and change the date time near the top of the file)

    3) upload the changed file back to strava

    Shouldn't have to do it but simples.

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  • Since I don't use a HRM, and I race without a power meter, I would appreciate Strava using calculated power for this.  The key is to apply a healthy smoothing filter to avoid the spikes associated with the the power calculation algorithm.  Also I don't know if calculated power uses inertia but I've found when comparing calculated to measured power (on my own) using inertia just creates more error than accuracy.  In any case, this would get far closer to truth than assuming zero: one race without HR or power and the entire graph is useless.

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  • Hello, I'd like to add my support to be able to manually add training impulse to rides for those times I don't have my heart rate monitor or the garmin has a flat battery and i use my phone

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  • Definitely agree, this would be useful.  I only use iPhone for Strava, and on long rides (5 hours plus) I switch off everything I can (including Bluetooth for HR) to preserve battery life.  I also use PolarPersonal Trainer and I can add a manual entry here and see the effect on Training Load.   It would be great if I could also do this on Strava - especially as a premium member.

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  • Definitely agree, this would be useful.  I only use iPhone for Strava, and on long rides (5 hours plus) I switch off everything I can (including Bluetooth for HR) to preserve battery life.  I also use PolarPersonal Trainer and I can add a manual entry here and see the effect on Training Load.   It would be great if I could also do this on Strava - especially as a premium member.

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  • @ Martin Jackson

    Keep the iPhone going for 24 hours plus...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005QI1A8C

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FA4Y82W

    If you put it in your pocket and use

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wahoo-RFLKT-Computer-iPhone-Android/dp/B00BAPM39A

    The reflkt helps loads as it is the screen on the iPhone that chews batteries.

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  • Totally agree. Premium Fitness Freshness function with no manual TSS data entry is totally useless for a power meter user..

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  • +1 for better F&F.


    I went for a great ride this am, but forgot my hrm. So my fitness/freshness score got Zero impulse. 
    Thing is- it was a 25km ride, and I set a PR on one segment, and did well on several other segments, as well as riding a course that I rode last Saturday with my HRM ....

    My point is that strava is showing zero impulse for the day, when I got a good workout. Which means that now my fitness/freshness data is nearly useless to me for the next several days.   I forgot to start strava (or I started it and the app crashed) on a big race last month.  That was 40km with 6,000m of climbing.   Not at all a "zero impulse" day.   Laughably, Strava showed my F&F as if I had done nothing all day.  I could barely walk.

    today: Strava shows that I went nearly 25km, it shows estimated power, it shows speed, elevations, etc.... It would be great if *some* sort of training impulse was included in my fitness/freshness chart. Even a conservative estimate. because my freshness is definitely less now than it was a few hours ago, but the chart doesn´t show that.

    For an even better experience, it would be nice to have some sort of manual input for training impulse. I know if I have had a hard or easy workout, perhaps not as well as my HRM knows, but.... I;d like to be able to add an impulse of 10 for a swim workout, for instance, as it affects my fitness/freshness.

    making it more accurate converts this feature into a tool instead of a toy.

    there is a lot of data on segment's difficulty, and most of us can estimate "hey, that was hard" closely enough to add *some* value to the chart and keep it more or less relevant.

    As it stands now, the F&F, while fun, is of very little value to my training.

     

    thanks!

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  • Guys less than perfect workaround... find a workout you've done which approximates the TSS you think you did, then use Golden Cheetah to import that file, change the workout date, export it, then re-load the file into Strava.. and you get a TSS entry for your workout.  If needed you can adjust some of the file data in Golden Cheetah to better approximate what you are trying to do.

    Again, it's a lot less than optimal, but it's something...  another Strava user suggested this to me and it's useful whether your power meter died or you forgot your HRM strap...

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  • To be honest a manual entry TSS score function would be useless. I mean if i went for a ride without a h/r strap or power meter how could i possibly enter an accurate TSS estimate, it would be total guess work. The current sufferscore estimate when used with a h/r strap solo is more than sufficient for those days that your not using a power meter.

    BUT SOMETHING THAT DOES NEED TO BE INCLUDED. is for the the sufferscore from a specific run activity to be included on the freshness and fitness graph currently the only way to do this is to add it in as a bike ride which in turn reduces the score by about a third. important for the winter! 

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  • The usefulness of various functions is assessed by the individual for their circumstances. For someone like myself whose training rides are similar, it would be.

    The eagle soaring high above doesn't know the thoughts and feelings of the little mice scurrying around, just that they look small and insignificant.

     

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  • Ha!  Graham, I couldn't agree more.  I simply don't trust Strava's estimated Training Load.   I have two rides of almost identical distance/time, very similar Suffer score and nearly identical HR and speed for the interval portion (these were the same structured rides).  On one ride I had a PM, on one I did not.  Strava estimates 91 Training Load for the non-PM ride, and it calculates 136 for the PM ride.  I can concede that the PM ride might have been higher training load, but there's no way it is 45 higher.  Without a doubt, I can estimate Training Load for my non-PM rides better than Strava can based on HR, simply because I have a huge data base for comparison.

    Secondly, I don't use a PM or HRM in my cross races, so they show up as 0.  So strava incorrectly estimates my HR-only rides, and gives 0 for my non-HR/non-PM rides.  The fitness and freshness curves are useless in the face of these errors.

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  • I am another one voting that manual entry is mandatory!

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  • I just had a 3 hour ride/race effort where my PM failed 4-5 min into the ride. Ended up getting a "Training impulse" of 1 the ride.  Now my fitness/freshness graph is going to be useless for a while... Should be able to edit... 

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  • How long as this been now? For something this simple??? We were just discussing the merits of this yesterday http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=103829

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  • Agree we could use this feature. And it has to be multispectral to be any use. Why are runners getting a poorer service? We pay the same as cyclists.
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  • Damn autocorrect. Meant multisport
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  • Manual training load entry has been under request for almost 2 years - I appreciate that there are many different projects in the pipeline, but this request seems rather simple in comparison with many of the newly developed features on Strava.

    Can we have some up to date feedback on this please? It seems like there are many of us asking for this but no reasonable response.

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  • Strava is uniquely positioned to be a leader in bringing simple yet powerful training analysis and knowledge to a very large population.  Sadly, this simple issue is a significant aggravation.  We are forced to hassle measures as suggested by Holger S -- thanks again, Holger!

    Download Golden Cheetah.  Find a prior workout with the desired duration and/or training impulse.  Import that workout into Golden Cheetah.. the first step of the import process is to assign the date of the workout.  Change that date to today (or whatever).  Then export that workout from Golden Cheetah and import it into Strava (perhaps hidden).  Now your fit/fresh curve is updated.  If necessary, you can edit the HR (power?) data within Golden Cheetah to better match the efforts to what you did based on perceived exertion.  

    I'm only a newbie to Golden Cheetah, but this works.  Give it a try as the fit/fresh curve takes ~40 days of workouts into account for averaging, and otherwise you will have to wait a considerable time before the curves become valuable again -- probably after your season is done and dusted.  Unfortunately I'm having to become a smarter Golden Cheetah user to overcome shortcomings to Strava Prime.  (e.g., I don't know how to change the duration of the imported Golden Cheetah workout). 

     

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  • My Strava Premium expires 4 Oct.  I will not be renewing until this and Designate between a "Group" and a "Solo" ride on Strava implemented.

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