Please add Normalized Power to the Best Efforts Power Curve visualization. It should work the same way as it currently does for average power, just for normalized power as well.

@mark that's correct but the trademark is only on the phrase "normalized power" not the math to calculate it. As long as strava doesn't use that phrase they can calculate normalized power as much as they want using the same means that training peaks does.

That may be true as far as it goes, but the math to calculate Normalized Power is also a trade secret of TrainingPeaks. And they're not telling anyone.

And even if Strava was able to reverse engineer the exact calculation, how would they communicate that to users? If Strava announced on its website, "Our calculation is identical to Normalized Power" ... bzzzzt! Trademark violation. Catch-22.

@mark strava has done exactly what you are proposing they cannot do on the Fitness & Freshness feature. These are the same calculations that Training Peaks make for their Performance Management Chart (ATL, CTL and TSB), all of these names are trademarked. It's very straight forward to write code to calculate all these values including normalized power (I've calculated all these values using Ruby and even MS Excel in the past). Strava just needs to add the feature using a different name, something like "scaled power" might make sense.

@mark Yup, I want that but added to the Power Curve feature. So I can see my best "weighted average power" for each duration in addition to the average power, which the power curve already gives. For my cycling discipline NP is more important than average in most cases.

Please add in 3 sec and 10 sec. Power average in stead of momentarily power that jumps up en down so you can't say anything about the power output of the Watt meter.

I too agree we need NP in Strava. I fail to see what the problem is. My Garmin 1000 calculates it, passes it to Garmin Connect and then sends the data to Strava. If Garmin have solved the problem then surely so can Strava

Weighted Average power doesn't seem to be the same as Normalised power - The weighted average always seems to be down on NP, with the last ride I did being 30w down on my NP reported on my Garmin and Training Peaks.

It is logic that if you take a coffee brake after 100k the recordings Stop. At my Garmin i put in a minimum speed of 6 km/h, Everything below that is not beging recorded. Strava should also stop recording Power ratings below 5 Watts.

Btw - if you install the Stravistix add-on for Chrome you get loads of added analysis tools while on the Strava website - and includes showing you the Coggan type Normalised Power power number (which indeed is always higher than Strava WAP).

Mark Gray, algorithm for calculation of Normalized Power is not a secret. Algorithm was described in ch. 7 of the book "Training and Racing with Power Meter" by Andrew Coggan himself.

"We calculate Normalized Power by: 1. Starting at the beginning of the data and calculating a 30-second rolling average for power; 2. Raising the values obtained in step 1 to the fourth power; 3. Taking the average of all the values obtained in step 2; and 4. Taking the fourth root of the number obtained in step 3. This is Normalized Power."

You are right that the phrase "normalized power" is a trademark. I cannot judge if algorithm itself is protected, as trademarks do not protect formulas. In any case, I do not think that there is a magic meaning in the 4th power, one can use 3rd power and also get a valuable metric which will emphasize sprints over steady power intervals and call it any name one wants.

## 评论

Mark Gray"Normalized Power" is a registered trademark of Training Peaks, so it can't be used by Strava.

Joe W@mark that's correct but the trademark is only on the phrase "normalized power" not the math to calculate it. As long as strava doesn't use that phrase they can calculate normalized power as much as they want using the same means that training peaks does.

Mark GrayThat may be true as far as it goes, but the math to calculate Normalized Power is also a trade secret of TrainingPeaks. And they're not telling anyone.

And even if Strava was able to reverse engineer the exact calculation, how would they communicate that to users? If Strava announced on its website, "Our calculation is identical to Normalized Power" ... bzzzzt! Trademark violation. Catch-22.

Joe W@mark strava has done exactly what you are proposing they cannot do on the Fitness & Freshness feature. These are the same calculations that Training Peaks make for their Performance Management Chart (ATL, CTL and TSB), all of these names are trademarked. It's very straight forward to write code to calculate all these values including normalized power (I've calculated all these values using Ruby and even MS Excel in the past). Strava just needs to add the feature using a different name, something like "scaled power" might make sense.

Mark GrayStrava already has what you refer to as "scaled power"; it's called "Weighted Average Power":

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918457-Power-Analysis-Features-Premium-

Whether or not Strava's algorithm exactly duplicates Normalized Power, I'm not in a position to say. But the purpose and intent is the same.

But they cannot call it Normalized Power regardless.

Joe W@mark Yup, I want that but added to the Power Curve feature. So I can see my best "weighted average power" for each duration in addition to the average power, which the power curve already gives. For my cycling discipline NP is more important than average in most cases.

Michael 👻I also think it would be helpful to have normalized power (weighted average power) added as an option in the analysis section.

Matthijs D.Please add in 3 sec and 10 sec. Power average in stead of momentarily power that jumps up en down so you can't say anything about the power output of the Watt meter.

Tim Shears 🇬🇧I too agree we need NP in Strava. I fail to see what the problem is. My Garmin 1000 calculates it, passes it to Garmin Connect and then sends the data to Strava. If Garmin have solved the problem then surely so can Strava

Tim Shears 🇬🇧Actually we need it on the summary page for the ride alongside the somewhat irrelevant weighted average power.

Richard Law 👽Weighted Average power is the same as Normalised power!! What is needed is way to compare NPs between rides.

Mark DayWeighted Average power doesn't seem to be the same as Normalised power - The weighted average always seems to be down on NP, with the last ride I did being 30w down on my NP reported on my Garmin and Training Peaks.

Richard Law 👽As is average power. It's simply due to how Strava treats non-moving time - i.e. it counts it as time at 0W (which it is) but Garmin doesn't.

Matthijs D.It is logic that if you take a coffee brake after 100k the recordings Stop. At my Garmin i put in a minimum speed of 6 km/h, Everything below that is not beging recorded. Strava should also stop recording Power ratings below 5 Watts.

Richard Law 👽Btw - if you install the Stravistix add-on for Chrome you get loads of added analysis tools while on the Strava website - and includes showing you the Coggan type Normalised Power power number (which indeed is always higher than Strava WAP).

Andrei IstratovMark Gray, algorithm for calculation of Normalized Power is not a secret. Algorithm was described in ch. 7 of the book "Training and Racing with Power Meter" by Andrew Coggan himself."We calculate Normalized Power by:

1. Starting at the beginning of the data and calculating a 30-second rolling

average for power;

2. Raising the values obtained in step 1 to the fourth power;

3. Taking the average of all the values obtained in step 2; and

4. Taking the fourth root of the number obtained in step 3.

This is Normalized Power."

You are right that the phrase "normalized power" is a trademark. I cannot judge if algorithm itself is protected, as trademarks do not protect formulas. In any case, I do not think that there is a magic meaning in the 4th power, one can use 3rd power and also get a valuable metric which will emphasize sprints over steady power intervals and call it any name one wants.

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