Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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  • When I first started riding the leaderboards were great and helped motivate me to go out and do better every time i went out. I had a series of life events happen that have kept me from riding anywhere close to what i would have liked and find myself in a situation where my previous data seems to be a demotivator when its included on the leaderboards. Without deleting all of my old data or simply looking at this year only on the leaderboard I think it would be helpful for athletes in my situation to be able to temporarily exclude data from leaderboards possibly anything prior to a specified date so that they would be able to see new efforts appear as PR's as they rebuild towards previous heights of fitness. I understand that old data can be set private etc but if you have been a member for years the amount of total activities to manually update could be quite large.

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  • I think id create a second account before manually editing over 2000 activities to set them to private. Just Figured I'd put this out there incase strava devs could use it. I'm sure im not the only person who has had a little to much off time and needs a reset of sorts.

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  • In response to

    Peter Cajthaml
    October 15, 2020 00:52

    E-BIKES ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT: As Susun Corda says above "leaderboards are one of the most differential features of Strava" and thus make Strava worth paying for the premium membership. Being primarily a mountain biker, I don't experience many problems with drafting or with people not completing the entire segment as described  by some users above. I see E-bikes as the primary threat to Strava as we know it. The leader boards have become polluted with e-bike times disguised as legitimate rides, and this makes the Strava Leaderboards meaningless.  It’s easy to spot the obvious effort when an e-biker takes a KOM on a popular steep climb, and then we can flag it, but what about all the e-bikers that are a bit slower and then go undetected? If this continues, and Strava continues to do nothing about detecting fake e-bike times, I will not renew my premium membership as Strava is losing its main attraction (to me).

    I couldn't agree more and it's the very reason I will never pay for Strava again.

    Leaderboards are broken. If you bought a new product and it was defective in some way, you would get a refund. Leaderboards are now corrupted beyond redemption to the point of being entirely meaningless, so why charge people a fee to use them?

    Strava, that was a rhetorical question!

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  • With regards to e-bikes and leaderboards, I think if Strava could do something about that, they would already have addressed the problem. I think unfortunately there isn't an easy solution.

    First of all, I think many eBikers are ignorant about segments. There are probably some that go and intentionally take segments but I think most of them have no idea. Cycling is one of the default sports on Strava, so that's what they use. They do cycle after all.

    Even if Strava created an eBike sport, do you think any of these eBikers would go and change their every ride type? They wouldn't unless that is somehow done automatically.

    Furthermore many of them probably record their rides with Garmin devices or other smartwatches, and those don't have eBike sports either.

    The only possible solution for Strava is to somehow recognize eBike activities automatically on upload. But that is far from trivial and probably requires some sort of machine learning algorithm which would look at variation of speed vs. grade. But I think it would be hard to make it reliable, and it works probably cause more issues than it solves.

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  • Stanislav C.

    You've already pointed out several really low hanging fruit.

    1) Change defaults, when a new user selects ride you could explicitly ask if it is an eBike or not.

    2) Changing ride type would only be an issue for historic activities, a really easy solution that requires no input on the part of the eBike user would be when users flag "wrong activity type" have a drop down to select the correct type. Perhaps even have a discreet option purely for eBike if that is the most common mistake?

    3) Strava does have an algorithm already, I think it just needs to be more aggressive. If Strava accidentally thought one of my rides was on an eBike I would take it as a compliment.

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  • Stanislav C. - Strava does already have an e-bike category/sport that people can select when saving their activities.  A lot of the e-bikers either don't know about it or are just too lazy to make the change each time they ride.  I do think it could be greatly improved if Strava could make it an option to be set as the default activity since I think most people who ride e-bikes, only ride e-bikes and not a mix of traditional and e-bikes.  By having a default option, you would not have the cases where someone either forgot to edit the activity type or just hasn't had a chance to yet before the leaderboards get updated.

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  • Hi Stanislav C. In Garmin Edge devices, you can assign eBike or eMTB to each profile and the activity gets properly uploaded as eBike Ride to Strava.

    To me, as I described at the very beginning of the thread, a solution could be to unify the segments into a single database use the same sport for all and make separated leaderboards for each bike type (road, mtb, gravel and their electric versions). If you don't have your bike declared in Strava you don't get into any leaderboard.

    Cheaters will be around anyway but at least we could reduce the number of people who upload the wrong activity type inadvertently and break leaderboards.

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  • Some time ago, Strava made full segment leaderboards unavailable for free users.

    As a "non-athlete" with my tiny activity, I cannot justify it as an expense. When segments were fully available for all users, I had motivation to prepare quality traces and add nice segments. That motivation disappeared.

    I cannot judge whether Strava gains more from limited segment functionality, but if segments were returned - they might get a bit more quality community contributions from users like me :)

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  • I managed to beat two KOMs today and they appeared in my activity (although only after refreshing), thay are not visible in my KOM list. I also am no. 1 on the all-time leaderboards, but previous KOM owners are still visible in the "fastest times" section of these segments. Any ideas why that's happening? Do these need time to be refreshed? 

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  • I would like to suggest a "Lantern Rouge" achievement for segments. This would be similar to the Gold/PR, Silver, and Bronze achievements, but instead it would indicate the user's slowest time recorded on the given segment. This achievement would only become active once a user records times for a given segment at least 4 times. 

    This is meant to be a light-hearted, fun feature given in the same spirit as the Lantern Rouge award in the Tour de France. However since this could also be embarrassing or de-motivating, it would be private (visible only to the user and perhaps to the user's followers), and it could be turned on or off at any time.

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  • I am new to Strava so perhaps I don't understand the function of the leaderboards. There is a local segment where the first two and half pages of times look like the following, obviously done in a group. Having group results mixed up with individual results makes them rather meaningless. Is there a way to filter out group results? 

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  • @Richard S. There is no way to filter out group rides and likely that such an idea would never work, remember not everyone uses Strava so if you are the only Strava user in a group how can you eliminate that? Just embrace it and accept that the segment is held by a group it's all part of the fun.

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  • There is no separate thread for segments in general, so I am going to use this thread for a feedback regarding syncing Strava segments to external devices (in particular Garmin Fenix watch).

    I know this topic has been brought before, but I wanted to bring it up once again. I find it completely arbitrary that Strava doesn't sync downhill **running** segments to my watch, and here are three reasons for that.

    First of all, if Strava wants to prevent people from racing downhill, the existing restriction doesn't even work. I have plenty of long segments that include both uphill and downhill parts, and they still sync to my device as long as the net grade isn't negative. For example, there is a popular segment that climbs a local mountain at 20% grade then goes back to start on 20%. According to Strava that is a 0% segment, so that is fine. But going along a mellow creek, dropping 15 feet of elevation in a mile, which is less than 2 floors, is apparently unsafe. That seems completely arbitrary. Then there is local hill where I live with a trail that goes across it one side to another. Crossing this hill in one direction is safe according to Strava, but crossing it in another direction is not. It is 0.5% net grade in one direction and -0.5% net grade in another even though the actual grades reach 10% in both directions. That is completely arbitrary too.

    Second, running is completely different. It is not like someone could accelerate to unsafe speeds even when they are running downhill. My area is hilly in general with a lot of rolling hills. Half of all running segments can't be synced.

    Third, Strava promotes downhill segments on it's new mobile segment explorer. But if I star them, what I am going to do? I don't run with my phone, so the experience is completely broken for me as those segments don't ever pop up on my Fenix.

    Is there any chance Strava reconsiders this decision for runners and especially trail runners?

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  • Rich Lee, agreed.

    There also seem to be a lot of recumbents and velomobiles in the E-bike category.

    Currently, there seems to be an assumption that E-bikers don't care about fair competition in the same way that regular cyclists do. However as E-bikes become more and more common I suspect that this will change and Strava would do well to stay ahead of the curve.

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  • Erik Bakke

    I'm not proposing 3rd place medals, I mean these already exist anyway.

    What I am suggesting is that there is some way of rewarding local riders that isn't completely condescending and patronising like the local legends feature. I am precisely trying to avoid giving away medals just for showing up.

    My initial suggestion is for a leaderboard where you need a number of extremely fast times to earn a spot. One could legitimately argue that a rider who can consistently get times of say 2 minutes is more impressive than a rider who once got a 1:59 because they got extremely lucky with conditions (tailwind, drafting, closed roads, gps errors, green lights, etc.).

    Arguably this would even more challenging to get than a regular KOM, I'm not trying to make achievements easier to get at all.

    But this was just an idea of the top of my head in response to Richard. Perhaps you have a better idea? I love Isa Johnson 's suggested improvement above. We all (Steve Tucker) seem to agree that local legends is utterly pointless. There must be some way to recognise people who are both fast and consistent, something that you would be proud to earn.

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  • Thanks for all the thoughtful responses to my question. I think the idea of filtering out single efforts (like Erik and Isa's suggestions would do) could be a solution.  This would take care of another problem I just encountered; a triathlon was run along one of my favorite segments last month and now the first 18 pages of the leaderboard are from that race with the first couple pages containing professional athletes. I was a volunteer at an aid station and I saw a fair amount of drafting so these are not necessarily individual results. To be clear, I am not trying to be KOM on any segment. I just want to input goal times from other local riders as a motivational tool to get faster. The way the leaderboards are currently set up it is difficult to even find true individual efforts. 

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  • TIM AZ

    Exactly.

    Like the "leader" of this segment, the name with Chinese characters: https://www.strava.com/segments/26782084?filter=overall

    I flagged it, it came back as "resolved".

    Others have too. 

    I commented on his ride, he wrote back "it was a mistake, I put in 15kg weight".  I replied OK, so delete the ride or crop it.  He doesn't.  Strava even saw that comment and still wouldn't remove it.  So apparently "resolved" includes admitting to cheating and leaving it up?

    Others comment with much more profanity.  

    Guy is a complete loser... just deletes the comments now that he learned how.

    Strava is inept and / or limp wristed on this.  Leaderboards are their core product.  And whatever this "resolved" BS is completely insulates an admitted cheater from proper community policing.

     

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  • Andria J. In the Strava help section it indicates that what is shown are “The most popular segments in the area based on the number of views, efforts, and stars.”  ”Stars” indicate how many people follow a particular segment.  I have noticed too that there are many segments in my area that don’t appear on a map of local popular segments.  Even though a segment may be heavily traveled, if it is not ‘followed” by a lot of riders it may not appear as a popular segment in the local area.

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  • It brings you on this page:

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061896712-Excluded-Segment-Efforts

     

    Where they says it's not possible to contest. :-/

    Really, I think Strava is really more and more frustrating their user and sooner or later, they'll leave...

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  • Tapio Kanko - For your 2nd item, e-bikes already do have their own segments and leaderboards and KOM stats.  You just need to set the activity type of your ride to "e-bike" and it is taken care of.  No reason to change your privacy settings.

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  • I agree with Carlos Vigo and Henry Hagert. Please Strava, consolidate bikes and ebikes segments with 2 different leaderboards.

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  • Hi Isa Johnson thank you very much for all the suggestions. In regards to the duplicate activities that are being recorded with two or more devices, we do have a system in place that identifies and prevents a duplicate activity from being uploaded, however, this system isn't perfect and there are ways to go about achieving duplicate recordings. I will gladly pass this feedback as well as your other suggestions along to our product team.

    We value your input. Your comments are key in helping us explore ideas that are not part of our product roadmap and can help us prioritize our future work. 

    One thing to remember: just because a particular suggestion is popular or we reply to a specific comment doesn't mean we will take action. Our forums are just one component of our decision-making process. Please understand that we do not respond to all comments, and we may or may not decide to use your feedback. 

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  • Isa Johnson Jason Lamoreaux

    I like the idea of a result that shows consistent efforts, e.g. from the 3 best efforts. I also think it is very important for motivation purposes to have a leaderboard that is more dynamic, .e.g. over the past 2 years. It is not yet a big problem, but as time goes on the regular top 10 results are going to become increasingly static and meaningless to the typical user.

    However we should always have the simple all time leaderboard as well because we don't want to forget these results and there is a certain elegance to a raw top 10.

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  • Diego Coenga

    Absolutely, it baffles me that despite Strava insisting that they have algorithms to detect this that it still happens so regularly.

    It is absolutely transparent to the human eye and as a software developer I really don't understand why this is so hard to detect automatically. The speed alone should be obvious enough, the change in average speed is generally not subtle. The location is another dead giveaway, they return to the start point, spend 10 minutes stationary and then shoot off.

    If there is a concern over false positives then just give users the ability to un-flag their rides if the algorithm is a little over zealous.

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  • Ashley Clarke

    They do already have this. I know someone who got flagged as being on a e-bike when they weren't.

    And yet somehow it seems to make little difference. Perhaps just make this algorithm a bit more aggressive. I think my friend was quite flattered at the flag, I certainly wouldn't take offence if Strava thought I was climbing steep hills at eBike speeds.

    Also take into account athletes previous activities. If they have a history of riding ebikes then it would be more likely, if they have on previous occasions been falsely flagged then give them a bit more leeway in future.

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  • Diego Coenga unfortunately you are too nice, a lot of them simply do not care, most ignore the flag and it gets marked as resolved. I once pointed out a guy who was doing 125kmph up the motorway after his MTB session. He ignored the flag and then just got abusive when I suggested he crop off the end of his ride. The irony being he could have cropped it quicker than the time spent sending abusive, long winded messages. Instead he went on a rant for two paragraphs about having nothing better to do. The irony was lost on him so I just disengaged. Until Strava either accept the idea of local moderation or auto flagging rides until they are cropped, some people just don't care.

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  • I agree with Richard Walker a 365 rolling target if preferable. It would mean you can have a yearly champion on 31/12, but not spam January with fake achievements. I like the idea above of a best 3 or 5 rides on a segment over a one year period. I would call this being the 'Mayor' of a segment. Obscure segments with few riders would not have this prize.

    Local Legends is a bit of a bust. I hear no chatter about it, and there is no incentive to target these awards. If you stop riding the same segment for even a little time the award drops. 90 days is no time at all, and it basically encourages you to ride the same route again and again. This is somewhat antithetical to the spirit of Strava, which should be encouraging more riding in new areas. Adventure/territory based games would be much more interesting than Local Legends 'ride along the main road 45 times,' as it is at the moment.

    Also it would be nice if these forum threads were newest comments first to spur debate.

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  • Richard Walker Erik Bakke Graeme McDonald

    A 365 day rolling period is clearly far superior to a strict yearly period. Going out on January 1st is just so weird atm.

    You might not throw the Guinness book of records away each year, but you tend to do this in sport all the time. You don't say someone isn't the Olympic champion because they aren't the fastest of all time. You don't say someone didn't win the TdF because there were better riders in previous years.

    It is even more important in Strava because such a lot of the historical data is total garbage.

    But like with the current "This Year" stats these are not the primary leaderboard, this is still the all time data.

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  • ^ or perhaps they think it is not worth cluttering up the app's UI with something that only a few people would want or use ? 

    running with your dog? ...real high priority for it's own activity...NOT !

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  • Randy Hermann You can add &page=99 or other numbers to the url to jump directly to a page. Example:

    https://www.strava.com/segments/1432325?filter=overall&page=123

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