Segment Leaderboards

This is the post for all feedback and feature requests related to Segment Leaderboards.

 

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478 條評論
  • @Sylvain - If you guys are averaging 25-45 km/h, then you must be riding flat or downhill hardpacked roads.  Nobody, not even pro riders average those speeds on actual mountain bike trails.  Maybe you could hit toward the upper end on a good downhill section of a course, but that would be only select locations.  I could see someone averaging the lower end of that, maybe 25 km/h or up to around 30km/h during races on some courses, but in that range, e-bikes would be providing additional power (most assist up to about 32 km/h or so) which means by default, an equal rider on an e-bike will be faster than one on a standard mountain bike.  Trying to claim good riders are averaging up to 45 km/h on mountain bikes is just showing how little you actually know about what you are talking about.  Bottom line, if you put the same rider on an e-bike and then on a regular bike over the same segment/course, they will almost always put up a faster time on the e-bike except for a few unique courses such as downhill or highly technical courses where the weight of the bike makes a noticeable difference.  

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  • @David Jones
    Average speed greater than max speed is the problem created by Strava's faulty segment matching algorithm. We should blame Strava for that and they have to improve the algorithm.

    The max speed comes from the actual speed entries during the segment. The average speed comes from the segment length divided by the difference of timestamps between the segment start and the segment end. Sounds correct, right? The problem is that the matched segment start and end points are not exactly at the segment start and end, and may each be well within the segment. Strava makes no effort to estimate exactly when you crossed segment start and end. Instead they just pick whatever points on your GPS track that ended up being the closest to those two points. If one uses smart recording on their device, points on the recorded track may be up to 6 -8 seconds apart. That means that when Strava matches a segment, if that person is lucky, their segment time may be several seconds shorter than it was actually, but Strava would still use that shorter time to calculate their average speed with the full segment length.

    The only solution to correct that is to use interpolation between points to find matching start and end more accurately.

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  • Nordic Skiing: Differentiate Skate & Classic - because skate skiing is a much faster technique than classic, it is very difficult for a classic skier to make a Nordic segment leaderboard. Suggestion: When starting a workout and choosing an activity, break Nordic Ski into its two disciplines: Nordic Ski - Skate, and Nordic Ski - Classic. They could share the same segments but have different leaderboards. If not possible to share the same segments, then allow Classic to begin creating new segments for that discipline. Thanks!

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  • I have very much appreciated how leaderboards were organized and viewed on the Strava app before the recent update. No longer are the little charts that show where you place overall to the right of "All Time", "This Year", "Today", etc.  I would really love to see that come back because it makes it very simple to see how I did on any given segment very quickly and without doing math to tell what percentile I'm in.

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  • Louis Spencer - Count me as one who strongly disagrees with you idea.  Segments are really pretty simple.  They are designed to be able to measure someone's performance along a specific path between two given points.  The fastest person to complete that "segment" by a given method of travel (run, bike, ski, etc...), gets to be listed as the KOM.  Nothing matters outside of the limits of that segments as far as segments are concerned.  Whether someone completed that segment as part of a 1-mile interval or as part of a 30 mile continuous effort doesn't matter.  If you are concerned with trying to earn the KOM for a given segment, you are more than welcome to do it under the same conditions as others.  Your idea would be impossible to implement on any kind of fair basis. You would be giving someone or some group the ability to pick and choose what they felt was a reasonable effort over the rest of a workout to qualify what was allowed for a segment effort.  Do segments only count if someone was on a run that was a minimum of 10k?  Who gets to decide?  If you want to have KOMs that more accurately reflect the stronger runners over a longer distance/effort, make longer segments.  Personally, I really like bike segments that are 30-60 minutes in length because it adds additional challenges to the rider and they must maintain a solid effort throughout.  But, I also like shorter segments at times because it really tests the sprinting ability.  While I am one of the stronger riders in the area I ride, there are some sprint segments that I can't touch because I am just not fast enough on sprinting, but I can beat those who do have the KOMs for them on longer rides typically.  It doesn't mean I want to take away their ability to compete for the KOM on those shorter segments.  

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  • As often suggested, please either begin interpolating segment start/end or use a more pessimistic model and choose the points before the start and end to guarantee a segment was fully completed.

    A friend of mine rode some segments with both a Garmin and the strava app recording, then compared the two results. The app gave out KOMs like candy because the GPS simply isn't as good; recording every second doesn't matter when you're recording less accurate location data. Precision vs accuracy.

    Many of the KOMs in my area are simply repeating the segment until you get lucky and strava gives you that "bonus" second, even though the actual speed data obviously is no faster.

     

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  • Is Strava considering to improve accuracy of segment leaderboards by doing interpolation between GPS points when matching segment start and finish?

    And why it isn't possible to post new topics on this new forum?

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  • Remove the artificial limit to sync max 100 live segemnts on Garmin devices:

    • Strave users are asking for this since more than 5 years
    • It's my device, my storage, my choice! If I want a thousand segments on my Garmin unit and reduce the available storage for courses and activities, that's my choice!
      BTW 100 segments consume only 874Kb on a Edge 820
    • Wahoo devices do not have this this artificial restriction of 100 live segments. Why Garmin users treated worse?
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  • Stanislav C.

    Thank you for your feedback regarding my comment and adding to the conversation.

    I like your suggestion of filtering segment leaderboards by sport rather than creating dual leaderboards for walking and running. Either way, I think it is important for people who are hiking or walking to be able to see how they are going against other like-minded individuals.

    When I am returning to running by doing my long walks, I put the effort in similar to a run and it's nice to see how my pace compares to others in this respect. I have also recently taken up hiking and often cover long distances, so it's nice again to see how my performance (not trail running) compares to others.

    The issue of junk data in the segment leaderboards is definitely more a concern for electric bikes corrupting standings for mountain bike and road biking activities. That said, there are numerous segments where I live where the running top spot is incredibly dubious at best.

    As you mention, there needs to be an automatic process to invalidate impossible segment efforts, leaving a smaller number of questionable entries that can then be left to human moderators to verify. I saw one 'walk' where someone drove 40-odd kilometres on a highway, forgetting to turn their watch off after their actual walk. This kind of activity should be automatically weeded out.

    I also think there needs to be some accountability about junk data. There are accidental uploads (forgetting to turn the watch off driving home) and then there are those who do wish to cheat (using an electric scooter to record a run). But users who continue to muddy the leaderboards should face some kind of action. I am not suggesting they be banned altogether, but I think their ability to interact with the segment leaderboards should be curtailed. This could be a sliding scale of short suspensions through to total disablement of the feature. Without consequences, there is no encouragement for people to either not seek to cheat the leaderboards or be careless uploading incorrect sport types against the activity performed - i.e. recording a bike ride as a run.

    My suggestion for managing this moving forward is for Strava to:

    1. Introduce an automatic process to immediately weed out impossible activities

    2. Continue allowing users to flag activities that are dubious for human review

    3. Caution users who continue to be responsible for junk activities in segment leaderboards

    4. Have a sliding scale of penalties for repeat offenders ranging from temporary to permanent exclusion from contributing to leaderboards

    For me, I don't need a leaderboard or a standing to get out and be active. But since I am paying for Strava's extra features and genuinely don't mind doing so since I enjoy the app, I think it is important we have integrity with the leaderboards to keep them clean and meaningful.

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  • m . - I totally disagree.  It is unreasonable to expect everyone to pay $500-$1000 for a power meter just to compete for segments.  I routinely ride/race on 5 different bikes (road, tt, mountain, cross, and snow).  I have power meters for a couple of them, but no way I should be expected to invest that kind of money into every bike to be eligible for segments. Add in that things like power meters won't sync with the Strava app in the first place, so all those using the phone app for this program would not be able to compete for segments.  If you see times that seem way off, check them out and flag them if you suspect there is something suspicious about it.  

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  • In my local area there has been some good competition on some Segments with the KOM changing hands 4 or 5 times between 2 or 3 riders.  It would be nice if there were a way to capture some of this competition.  The Segment leaderboards only show the PB for each athlete and so there is no way to see an old KOM performance if it is no longer the athlete's PB.  Could we perhaps have a small table in each Segment to show the evolution of the KOM performances ?  As well as seeing how the KOM has switched between different riders over time, it would be interesting to see the overall rate of improvement in the KOM performance as Strava attracts more users.

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  • How about a rolling 365 day KOM/PR badge.

    This will freshen up the KOM leaderboards.

    It will solve the problem of the 'yearly KOM' that was tried a few years ago where it got silly in January.

     

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  • Make Segment Creators Visible (Feature)

    One reason I would like to see this feature be implemented is that it would be cool to see who actually created each segment (and to have that person's name displayed on the segment detail page). Strava is about the social connection among users, and this feature would increase that social aspect.

    Another reason to have this feature is that if there is an issue where a segment on a trail no longer matches the exact trail section due to modification of that trail over the years. It would be a lot better if that existing segment could be deleted and then re-made with the updated trail. This would allow people to know who the segment creator is and contact them to delete the current segment so an updated one can be created to match the updated trail.
    I do not like the idea of creating a new segment as is (with the old segment still in place), as this would be confusing and not look very good on the map.

    My last reason why I think it would be great to show the name of the segment creator is to potentially be able to promote a certain real-life club, group, or individual trail. Maybe it would be cool to even have a page where it shows a map with all the public segments that a user created. This could allow people to discover new trails that they never thought existed.

    I'm sure there are many other reasons why this feature would be great to have as well.

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  • Jason Lamoreaux - Hi Jason - thanks for your post.  I share your concerns about poor quality and duplicated Segments.  However, I can't help feeling that if a user doesn't take the time to carefully create a new Segment they are unlikely to respond to feedback from other (anonymous) users who request Segment edits or deletions.  I am in the habit of simply hiding poor Segments and this seems to work quite well (I've just hidden 3 poor Segments with corrupted leader-boards from my bike ride of today).

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  • As of this morning segment leaderboard breakdown data has disapeared from the mobile app (following/this year etc). It now only shows the top all time and your place within it. When this data was moved behind the paywall i subscribed as segements are the reason i use strava over other apps. Is this coming back ? its the only useful feature in the subscription.

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  • Please could we have age group awards. A Gold, Silver and Bronze with 55+ etc. Not a top 10 as this could get a bit cluttered, but a top three award on the activity page would be nice. I'd like to have the incentive to still be riding in 30 years time.

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  • If Segment is made from multiple laps of a loop the best consecutive attempt should be used as PR

    If there is a segment that is for example 5 laps around a mile loop and an attempt is made by riding for example 8 laps Strava will use the first 5 lap as the best effort even if the middle 5 or last 5 laps of the 8 were the fastest effort. It would be more useful/accurate if Strava recorded time for each set of 5 consecutive laps to determine the best time for the 5 lap segment.  That way if you warm up on the first lap then hammer for 5 more the last five will be the PR instead of using the first 5 including the warm up lap as the PR and ignoring the last fast lap as it does currently.

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  • I ask Strava if it is possible to create a new segment leaderboard, in addition to those for age and gender etc., only for those who ride with an ebike. Those who ride with an ebike would not be present in the other segment leaderboards, but only in the ebike one. This would avoid creating the existing segments agai

    I think it is not appropriate to duplicate the existing segments in order to create a leaderboard for those who use an eBike. I created a lot of segments myself when I used my human-powered bike and I wouldn't want to create them again using eBike.

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  • Strava's running segment leaderboards are relatively clean. Having recently started to do more long walks as part of an injury recovery plan, I have glanced at the walking segment leaderboards for the first time and have been quite shocked to see how much junk data there is on there.

    There are impossible segment efforts from people who clearly have been in a car; perhaps forgetting to turn their watch off after their genuine activity and driving home. Then there are those who were obviously on bikes.

    I don't need a leaderboard to walk and enjoy my walks but considering we are paying for this feature, there needs to be some attention given to cleaning this up. One local segment here has at least the first few pages filled with junk data.

    There is a portion of the data that is so wildly impossible (like 1 minute km splits for a 'walking' activity) I just don't understand how there is not some automatic program in place to weed these ones out.

    I think there needs to be a deterrent as well for these junk uploads to leaderboards. A three strike and you are out kind of rule. That's not to say banned from the site, but perhaps excluded from leaderboards for a period of time as a suspension period.

    It's not hard to be mindful of uploading true and proper accounts of activities and there does need to be a collective sense of goodwill from users to make the platform work. But knowing there will always be those who knowingly do the wrong thing or are just careless, Strava needs to step in with a framework to restrict these people from leaderboards if they continue to litter them with junk data, bringing down the usefulness of the feature for everyone else.

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  • The problem with your rationale Carlos Vigo is that it's probably 90% acoustic riders vs 10% e-bike riders using Strava, so you're then destroying the majority of the end users chances of achieving genuine relevant goals.

    I would be just pushing the Strava team to "fix" the functionality you are missing, rather than be part of the problem being discussed in this thread? 

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  • I dislike the fact that when I stumble across a segment that is full of cheaters who clearly logged their times in a vehicle and I am trying to clean it up with "user patrolled" flags, Strava cuts me off after around 6-7 flagged rides. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I suddenly start getting the message "Flagging content is temporarily disabled. Please try again later." I have to wait 24 hours or so then try again. Some of these segments are so obvious. People logging 45+ MPH on long 3% climbs. Some logging rides with top speeds in excess of 100 MPH! First off, how can this not be auto-detected? Secondly, when I am trying to clean up the mess, I get blocked. BTW... The same people pop up over and over. It's like a whack-a-mole. You flag one of their rides and they reappear on the segment leaderboard with another ride in which they've cheated.

    Here's a classic example for you. Find me one rider, just one, in the top fifty on this segment that didn't obviously log their time in a vehicle. https://www.strava.com/segments/22063172

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  • I agree.

    It makes user patrol a day after day, repeated task.

    The algorithms to detect and auto flag this are so simple from a programming perspective, it's offensive to me that Strava hasn't shown any progress on this front.  Speed, VAM, or even relative to prior KOM's (the next one might be a few percent more, not triple), adding in checks for real power data and heart rate, etc.

    Strava risks becoming an irrelevant myspace without some very easy, very basic intelligence applied to what is their core function - segments and leaderboards.

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  • You really need to allow rides to be reflagged, the number of people who just ignore the flag is ridiculous. Then having to write up an email to Strava support seems a horrendous waste of time. Basically allow a ride to be reflagged X times (eg 3 or 5), if it gets reflagged that many times, it goes to support who review the points made in the comments when flagged. Then they can disable reflagging or make it permanently private. Therefore the athlete doesn't lose the ride but it doesn't affect anyone else. It would take away a lot of frustration.

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  • 100% agree with M Farlock above.

    There's one persistent e biker in my vicinity who thinks the rules don't apply to categorize rides properly, or just enjoys being obnoxious to non-e bike riders.

    Every time his rides are flagged, he ignores it the maximum number of times before wasting Strava's time by getting it properly flagged.

    https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360073465872/comments/4407764132237

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  • I would like to highlight once again that what Carlos Vigo mentioned in a very first page please, keep segments just the same for both activity types e-bike and regular ride but, separate leaderboards based on activity type. This way there would not be a need to create separate e-bike segments, it would encourage people to records activities as e-bike ride instead of regular ride because all segment features would be then available like live-segments, segment search/explorer and etc.
     
    I was disappointed when after many years of using Strava I bought first e-bike and noticed that, it lacks lot of features compared to regular rides. Many others has also noted that in our cycling groups. Paying a subscription has become a doubt...
     
    Carlo's post follows..
     
    Please consolidate regular bike and e-bike segments into a single segment datase but keep separated leaderboards depending on bike type. This would enable live segments for eBike riders, and remove the concerns about the lack of segments for eBikes, the unavailability of eBike segments search or not being included in the new route maker.

    It also enables riders to compare (but not compete) with people using different bikes, which I think is useful for DH segments.

    It also encourage eBikers not to record their activities as regular rides. How many of them do it just to get the same functionality as regular rides?

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  • Isa Johnson - I disagree with the idea of using an average of the 3 best efforts for a leaderboard.  That would eliminate all people who only ride a trail one or two times from having the chance of getting on the leaderboard or going for a KOM.  I travel to other cities and states to ride from time to time, but often only end up riding a specific trail or segment once or twice.  Should I not be eligible for a KOM or a top 10 leaderboard spot just because I don't live there and get to ride it frequently?  What about those segments used for races that people only ride in the race, so only get one or two laps?  

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  • Many athletes are recording their training the wrong way, they train and forget to finish their training, instead they go home in their motor vehicles and only then finish their training. The problem is that in the middle of the way they end up taking several RPs (personal records), KOMs and QOMs.

    When I say a lot, I mean a lot.

    In a segment that I'm "cleaning" there are more than 40 incorrect records and you only release 10 flags a day, it's very little, I've been flagging these people for over 1 week and it never ends.

    I'm just suggesting that a tool be thought up that reminds these people to finish their training and don't drive home recording.

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  • I want Strava to add interpolation between points when there is more then 1 second between 2 points. The reason that is important is because the segment leaderboard will be more fair. 

    For example: Segment https://www.strava.com/segments/26377494 

    1. In 30 seconds with an average of 33.6km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4450098785/analysis/1723/1740)
    2. In 32 seconds with an average of 31.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4437581033/analysis/1866/1887)
    3. In 33 seconds with an average of 33.9km/h (https://www.strava.com/activities/4433313255/analysis/9336/9368)

    Nr 1 and 2 have a device that has a variable GPS interval recording. Sometimes it is each second, but it also can be 5 seconds in between 2 points. Some people also have a device with GPS interval of 5 seconds.

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  • Please allow all devices to sync more than 100 starred segments.  This will enable me to start using Live Segments reliably.  I have been a long term Strava user and have over 200 starred segments.  With the current 100 limit it is a lottery as to whether any given starred segment will appear in my Live Segments display.  Hammerhead tell me this is a general Strava API limit that applies to all devices and this makes sense given what I have seen on this issue across other forums.  Surely the data volume involved is tiny compared to the value it would give to Strava's most valuable customers, i.e. those that have been paying for many years and have accumulated a lot of starred segments.

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